# Would the World Have Been Better if Germany Had Won World War I? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183 "2011-01-11T02:39:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/141 "2011-01-14T17:01:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > All these arguments about who was worse: Germany, France, Russia, Austria, Britain. Let’s seek some common ground and find something we can all agree on: the United States is perfect. Oh, they are all guilty of something - there were no angels or good guys. At this stage in the history of the US, it was pretty selfcontained and didn’t bother anyone outside - unlike today - so not really anything obviously bad to report about the US at this stage, so have your perfect for the US. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/142 "2011-01-14T18:33:50Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > At this stage in the history of the US, it was pretty selfcontained and didn’t bother anyone outside Tell that to the Mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/143 "2011-01-14T18:38:30Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > No. Because it isn’t in current usage as a slur against Germans. It was confined to WW1 with a small revival in WW 2. > > And it came from their own lips so to speak: (quote from wikipedia Hun entry) > \* > On July 27, 1900, during the Boxer Rebellion in China, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany gave the order to act ruthlessly towards the rebels: “Mercy will not be shown, prisoners will not be taken. Just as a thousand years ago, the Huns under Attila won a reputation of might that lives on in legends, so may the name of Germany in China, such that no Chinese will even again dare so much as to look askance at a German.”\* So Germans can call each other Huns but nobody else can: “Das ist unser Wort” ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/144 "2011-01-14T18:54:27Z")
It’s called the H word in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/145 "2011-01-14T19:27:50Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Read up on that lovely history of the British Emipre [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire) - it’s a peacefull one. > > Or the involment of the British [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_Kingdom_during_World_War_I)… read the something about secret meeting from 1905 bit Good God, that’s literally the stupidest comparison I’ve seen this week. You’re comparing the German government’s itch to ignite a continental war in 1912 with the British government’s secret “moral commitment” to France? Literally the only mention of the date 1905 in your link is this snippet: > [@](#): > > Britain’s ‘moral commitment’ to France was another matter; extensive secret talks had been going on since 1905, but most members of Asquith’s cabinet were not privy to them until 1911. Are you serious in comparing these two? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/146 "2011-01-14T19:48:02Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > It’s called the H word in Germany. There is a move afoot to replace the H-word with “nomad warrior”, for high school texts. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/147 "2011-01-14T20:21:07Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > They were not complete puppet states and some freedom under the Germans would be better than no freedom under the Russians. That’s not how populations work, I’m afraid. See Iraq for the most obvious and recent example. > [@](#): > > Not the most optimistic scenario. I could have said there will be no wars after World War I and it’ll all be flowers from then on. But history has shown the optimists are usually right-often beyond their wildest dreams. It has ?! > [@](#): > > But its not just aggressiveness but any sort of military action that the Germans are averse to-even collateral damage in airstrikes. At the risk of repeating myself, how is that a bad thing ? Aversion to murdering civilians seems a decent, human, dare I even say Christian thing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/148 "2011-01-14T23:45:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s not how populations work, I’m afraid. See Iraq for the most obvious and recent example. Iraq is different as 1) the Hussein government was popular among Sunni Arabs who launched much of the violence in Iraq and 2) the one area of Eastern Europe that was made independent by Germans and stayed so after they left-Finland-became a viable state. > [@](#): > > It has ?! I don’t think my comment there was exactly wise. However from what actually happened in Finland and other areas of Eastern Europe, I don’t my scenario is too optimistic using what actually happened. > [@](#): > > At the risk of repeating myself, how is that a bad thing ? Aversion to murdering civilians seems a decent, human, dare I even say Christian thing to me. You don’t seem to recognize the point here. I agree that the killing of civilians is a thing to be avoided but it can’t be averted 100% in wartime and such things as virtually forcing the Minister of Defense to resign over that is a bit extreme, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/149 "2011-01-15T02:40:41Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > \<…\>\*the motto Gott mit uns (God with us) on German soldiers’ belt buckles during World War I. \* My mother was born of a era to be raised on stories of “The Great War”, and she liked to repeat the joke about the American doughboy who took a German prisoner. When the prisoner defiantly cried “Gott mit Uns!” the doughboy replied “Yeah, well we’ve got mittens too!” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/150 "2011-01-15T16:07:59Z")
I think it is telling (just how out of date german geopolitical thinking was by 1914), that The kaiser wanted African colonies-just when France and GB began to realize what a drain they were. Take German East Africa (now Tanzania)-Gemany never made money on the place. The colonial era was pretty well over (by 1900), as it became clear that the colonies required massive investment, and gave very little returns. So it would have been good for Wilhelmine Germany to have “won” WW1-theen they could have gotten colonialism out of their system. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/151 "2011-01-15T18:21:23Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Not the most optimistic scenario. I could have said there will be no wars after World War I and it’ll all be flowers from then on. But history has shown the optimists are usually right-often beyond their wildest dreams. You are aware that WWI was called “The War to End All Wars”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/152 "2011-01-16T04:30:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You are aware that WWI was called “The War to End All Wars”, right? I recanted the statement above. ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/153 "2011-01-23T18:07:50Z")
Shame the A bomb wasn’t developed for WWI. Then WWII could have been avoided. I wish that Germany had been A bombed in WWII. They got off way easy. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/154 "2011-01-24T15:33:34Z")
> [@AshenLady](#): > > Shame the A bomb wasn’t developed for WWI. Indeed. I wish the Germans had then dropped it on New Jersey, so we would now have one less callous shithead post. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/155 "2011-01-24T17:36:14Z")
How is it a callous shithead post to say you wish World War II had been avoided? Saying the Nazis should have been a-bombed is somewhat more callous but hating Nazis is hardly an unusual position. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/156 "2011-01-24T20:55:57Z")
You’re shitting me, right? You actually want me to explain to you why it would be callous to drop A-bombs on civilian population centres, really? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/157 "2011-01-24T22:29:38Z")
You’d prefer to kill them some other way? Maybe shoot them so you can enjoy the look they get on their face? Face facts, war is about killing people. There aren’t good way and bad ways to kill people. And defeating the Nazis was a pretty unambiguous moral justification for fighting a war. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/158 "2011-01-24T22:37:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’d prefer to kill them some other way? Maybe shoot them so you can enjoy the look they get on their face? > > Face facts, war is about killing people. There aren’t good way and bad ways to kill people. And defeating the Nazis was a pretty unambiguous moral justification for fighting a war. That’s where you are wrong. War is about imposing your will on others. Body counts isn’t necessarily the main aim. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/159 "2011-01-24T22:42:06Z")
You know, that you would have it be about killing loads of people, mainly civilians, says a lot about you. And it ain’t pretty ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183/160 "2011-01-24T23:07:43Z")
> [@AshenLady](#): > > Shame the A bomb wasn’t developed for WWI. That means even more people die and Flanders is radioactive-World War II would be avoided because Western Europe would be devestated. > [@](#): > > Then WWII could have been avoided. I wish that Germany had been A bombed in WWII. They got off way easy. How worse could you get? All the major cities got bombed out, Germany was partitioned and remained so until 1990, Soviets went on a rape rampage in the area they occupied, much of Eastern Germany was lost and all ethnic Germans expelled. If they were any worse off (such as if the Morengathu Plan was implemented) Germany would not be able to recover. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-world-have-been-better-if-germany-had-won-world-war-i/567183.md?page=9)