# Would they still be superheroes in real life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 9, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242 "2016-08-09T13:38:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/21 "2016-08-10T17:35:06Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > Black Widow doesn’t have any supernatural powers or enhancements does she? If we accept that her martial arts skill are as good as they are portrayed, I mean. True, but in real life, even the world’s greatest female karate master would get her ass kicked if she tried to fight ten male street thugs at once. For that matter, so would genuinely big, strong, tough guy like Ray Lewis or Lawrence Taylor. There’s no nobody of either gender who could whip a whole gang with his bare hands the way Bat man does. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/22 "2016-08-10T17:58:14Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > For that matter, so would genuinely big, strong, tough guy like Ray Lewis or Lawrence Taylor. There’s no nobody of either gender who could whip a whole gang with his bare hands the way Bat man does. Not a gang exactly, but I knew a guy who beat up three muggers who surprised and ganged up on him. He was not a particularly big guy, maybe 5’ 9" and 165 pounds. He was in his forties but he also an ex-Marine and spent years as a professional boxer and boxing trainer. He was solid muscle. During the fight he took some serious hits and had a pretty bruised eye but the police found one of his assailants on the street in front of him unable to move and another who didn’t make it more than a couple blocks. The third assailant apparently abandoned his friends when the odds had turned drastically against him. The two assailants he flattened were both considerably bigger than he was. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/23 "2016-08-10T20:17:56Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > For that matter, so would genuinely big, strong, tough guy like Ray Lewis or Lawrence Taylor. There’s no nobody of either gender who could whip a whole gang with his bare hands the way Bat man does. Go spend a few minutes on youtube watching some “Boxer versus street fighter” videos. E.g.: [https://youtu.be/W\_5Wm2C70w8?t=36](https://youtu.be/W_5Wm2C70w8?t=36) A trained fighter can absolutely whip a whole gang of thugs with his bare hands. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/24 "2016-08-10T20:56:10Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > Black Widow doesn’t have any supernatural powers or enhancements does she? If we accept that her martial arts skill are as good as they are portrayed, I mean. This probably isn’t what you meant, but she canonically doesn’t age(much). In-universe she was a child during WWII. She is supernaturally young, in the real world her age would make her… less effective. Some of this has been retconned a few times. The movies I’ve seen haven’t brought this up, though, in spite of an opportunity for the Winter Soldier to recognize her from when they trained together long ago. The movie version Winter Soldier backstory may be different enough that training together would be hard to explain. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/25 "2016-08-10T20:58:34Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Go spend a few minutes on youtube watching some “Boxer versus street fighter” videos. E.g.: [https://youtu.be/W\_5Wm2C70w8?t=36](https://youtu.be/W_5Wm2C70w8?t=36) A trained fighter can absolutely whip a whole gang of thugs with his bare hands. It’s plausible that they could do it once. It’s not plausible that they could do it consistently, that no one would ever get in a lucky shot. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/26 "2016-08-10T21:25:38Z")
With the exception of Dr. Manhattan (and possibly Ozymandias pushing the envelope), the OP pretty much states the reality of _Watchmen_. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/27 "2016-08-10T21:39:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > With the exception of Dr. Manhattan (and possibly Ozymandias pushing the envelope), the OP pretty much states the reality of _Watchmen_. There was also the unnamed telepath who Ozymandias made a modified clone of to simulate an alien creature attacking Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/28 "2016-08-10T21:42:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > With the exception of Dr. Manhattan (and possibly Ozymandias pushing the envelope), the OP pretty much states the reality of _Watchmen_. Nite Owl’s tech is, IMHO, too futuristic to qualify: a radar-invisible flying submarine that maneuvers better than any other aircraft, and bullets bounce off its armor plate while it hovers in place before it streaks off for an intercontinental flight? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/29 "2016-08-10T22:41:52Z")
True, a lot of the tech in _Watchmen_ is pretty scifi. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/30 "2016-08-10T23:52:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > True, a lot of the tech in _Watchmen_ is pretty scifi. It was stated somewhere along the way that Doctor Manhattan’s existence and activities had spurred a lot of crazy new tech, including “fast and economical airships” and the kind of genetic engineering that lets one have an oversized pseudoLynx as a housepet. Of course, some of the more banal historical details are off, like only referencing the Viet Cong as the enemy combatants in Vietnam (the North Vietnamese Army / People’s Army of Vietnam was a far more significant force) and Richard Nixon having the “nuclear football” (which for some reason is shaped like an _actual_ football) chained to his own wrist instead of the wrist of an accompanying military officer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/31 "2016-08-11T00:26:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It was stated somewhere along the way that Doctor Manhattan’s existence and activities had spurred a lot of crazy new tech, including “fast and economical airships” and the kind of genetic engineering that lets one have an oversized pseudoLynx as a housepet. Yeah, but he said that in 1975, and Nite Owl was doing his thing in 1965; and even in _1985,_ that cop who stops by to give Dan a friendly warning makes a big deal about how other airships can’t maneuver between buildings as nimbly the Owlship. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/32 "2016-08-11T02:53:32Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > A protest and vigil is being held is being held outside of City Hall this evening, in response to shocking video that shows officer Frank Castle shooting an unarmed and compliant suspect nine times. Two knee caps, two elbows, two ankles, two wrists. Pulls a cig out of the perp’s pocket… lets him have one last drag… then a cap between the eyes followed by sizzling the cig out inside the hole? \*\*\* cut to sign saying “[No Smoking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCrDmEvjeGU)” \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/33 "2016-08-11T04:02:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Yeah, but he said that in 1975, and Nite Owl was doing his thing in 1965; and even in _1985,_ that cop who stops by to give Dan a friendly warning makes a big deal about how other airships can’t maneuver between buildings as nimbly the Owlship. Huh, now that you mention it, the failed 1965 meeting of “The Crimebusters”, a mere six years after Jon Osterman’s transformation, is probably the chronologically earliest appearance of the Owlship, though there may be a vague reference to it in Hollis Mason’s 1962 autobiography. Even if Dreiberg is an engineer of near-Tony Starkian ability and wealth, that’s a stretch, and there’s no established connection between him and Osterman (or Mason and Osterman) suggesting Osterman took a direct hand in helping build the Owlship, which strikes me as the only plausible in-universe theory to explain its still-cutting-edge abilities 20 years later. If we allow the _Before Watchmen_ comics, Dreiberg had the idea for the Owlship as early as 1962 and discovered Mason’s identity even before Mason went public. In that series, Dreiberg publicly debuts as Nite Owl II in 1964 or '65 (he help quell a riot during a blackout, possibly the Northeast Blackout of November 1965) with the Owlship. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/34 "2016-08-11T11:36:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Huh, now that you mention it, the failed 1965 meeting of “The Crimebusters”, a mere six years after Jon Osterman’s transformation, is probably the chronologically earliest appearance of the Owlship, though there may be a vague reference to it in Hollis Mason’s 1962 autobiography. Minor nitpick: the shot of Nite Owl and Rorschach on the docks, with the Owlship ominously floating behind them as they prepare to start “bringing street gangs under control” apparently predates the Crimebusters meeting, where Nite Owl notes that he and Rorschach “have made headway into the gang problem by pooling our efforts”. Looks like the former is '65, and the latter is '66. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/35 "2016-08-11T11:52:28Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > It’s plausible that they could do it once. It’s not plausible that they could do it consistently, that no one would ever get in a lucky shot. To use one example…Ronda Rousey is as tough and strong a fighter as any woman on the planet, and even she can’t ALWAYS defeat just ONE other woman. So, even if Batgirl or Black Widow were as strong as Ronda Rousey, theyd get stomped (and, eventually, killed) if they tried battling male criminals, unarmed, every night. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/36 "2016-08-11T15:07:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Minor nitpick: the shot of Nite Owl and Rorschach on the docks, with the Owlship ominously floating behind them as they prepare to start “bringing street gangs under control” apparently predates the Crimebusters meeting, where Nite Owl notes that he and Rorschach “have made headway into the gang problem by pooling our efforts”. Looks like the former is '65, and the latter is '66. Well, it’s not really a nitpick - you may be right, though they did work as a team after that meeting. The first reference to them splitting up was during the “Spirit of '77” riots (“He, uh, mostly works on his own now.”), with the implication that the Roche kidnapping of 1975 was the critical moment. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/37 "2016-08-11T15:20:20Z")
It would be near impossible to maintain any secret identity. Everybody would know who the hero is, and without government help where he/she is all the time. And their friends and family would be in danger, the main reason for a secret identity in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/38 "2016-08-11T15:47:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, it’s not really a nitpick - you may be right, though they did work as a team after that meeting. I was merely nitpicking how you placed the Crimebusters meeting in 1965; Rorschach says it was 1966, Doctor Manhattan says it was 1966, the Comedian is shown reading a 1966 newspaper, and so on. It maybe doesn’t alter your _larger_ point, since, again, we get to see the Owlship in that panel where Rorschach talks about teaming up with Nite Owl in 1965 – but since you figured the Crimebusters meeting was (a) probably the ship’s first chronological appearance; and was (b) in 1965, I figured I’d throw in a quick nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/39 "2016-08-11T16:55:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Minor nitpick: the shot of Nite Owl and Rorschach on the docks, with the Owlship ominously floating behind them as they prepare to start “bringing street gangs under control” apparently predates the Crimebusters meeting, where Nite Owl notes that he and Rorschach “have made headway into the gang problem by pooling our efforts”. Looks like the former is '65, and the latter is '66. On reflection, and without my copy handy to make sure, I think the frame you’re describing comes from Rorschach reminiscing with his prison psychologist and includes the narrative “Good team, until he quit like the others, until he got soft.” Could be any time between 1965 and 1974. And yes, I was wrong about dating the Crimebusters meeting in 1965 instead of '66. In any case, if we include _Before Watchmen_, Dreiberg had the Owlship at the very beginning of his career as Nite Owl II (I have to admit, I’d wait until I had transportation before going public, too) and even with the nascent influence of Dr. Manhattan over science and technology, 1965 is way too early for such a vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242/40 "2016-08-11T18:11:49Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > On reflection, and without my copy handy to make sure, I think the frame you’re describing comes from Rorschach reminiscing with his prison psychologist and includes the narrative “Good team, until he quit like the others, until he got soft.” Could be any time between 1965 and 1974. It could – but he’s reminiscing by saying that _“In 1965, worked with Nite Owl bringing street gangs under control. Tackled the Big Figure together. Brought down Underboss together. Good team. Until he got soft, like rest. Until he quit.”_ Since the panel is them readily facing guys at the docks – this one has a length of chain; that one, a baseball bat – I figure it’s clearly supposed to be that time he’s talking about, when they took on gang members in 1965. I’ll grant that it could technically could be something else, but that’d be kind of a weird non sequitur. > [@](#): > > In any case, if we include _Before Watchmen_, Dreiberg had the Owlship at the very beginning of his career as Nite Owl II (I have to admit, I’d wait until I had transportation before going public, too) FWIW, while we never see Dan use it (or even really _note_ it) in **Watchmen** , we do see that he has an owlish Batmobile knockoff down in, y’know, his version of the Batcave. So it’s not _too_ crazy to wonder if he’d start his career with a tricked-out armored car before he had the radar-invisible flying submarine ready to go. But, yeah, factoring in **Before Watchmen** takes it from “seems unlikely” to “nah”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-they-still-be-superheroes-in-real-life/762242.md?page=3)