# Would this be blackmail? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029 "2014-12-12T14:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/41 "2014-12-13T05:34:32Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > facts: It costs $12k per year to educate a student in my public school. Mr & Mrs X decide to sneak their son into the school system from a not-so-good neighboring town. Every time I presented evidence to the school board, Mr. X trumped it with authoritative-looking documentation. I then had to go and refute that documentation (e.g. I showed the school board a recent declaration-of-homestead in the neighboring town). It took three months. Eventually, the school board tried to kick SON out of school, but Mr. X pleated that it was November of his senior year, so the school board allowed him to stay if he paid “tuition”. It took me another 8 months (using the state’s equivalent of the Freedom-of-Information-Act, including appeals), but I finally ascertained that Mr. X paid a paltry $8k for a $48k education. So I built a web site detailing all the facts, including the names of the mother, father, son. > > Now son is about to graduate college and Mom is afraid my web page will be seen by potential employers. She wants me to take it down. She originally threatened me with legal action, but my defense is that my web site was truthful. > > So … Is it blackmail if I ask her to reimburse our town the $40k she stole (my opinion, of course) before I remove the web page? As someone who ran small crews, but not in charge of HR, I couldn’t care less about this type of high school drama from a college graduate. I’m assuming the kid was under 18 for most of the time so he wasn’t responsible for what went on. This is douche-y behavior by the parents of the kid but I doubt the kid was the mastermind behind what happened, and if he was maybe he’s the type of person a company would like. IMHO the douchiness of the parents is overshadowed, by a large margin, by the actions of the OP. If you want to punish the parents go for it, but kids have a hard enough time starting out as it is and there is no need for you to pointlessly make it more difficult. ETA: About the OP question, I doubt that it would be considered blackmail but you could also threaten to counter sue for libel/slander. Might as well go full retard. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/42 "2014-12-13T06:08:11Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > I understand that people find what the OP is doing unacceptable, but if we allowed anyone to go to whatever schools they wanted, we’d have a free rider problem since there isn’t enough money to give everyone a first class education. Exactly. Everyone knows that the United States is a third world country with limited resources. Such chicanery would plunge the nation into economic collapse faster than you could say “See Dick run.” Thank God for you and the OP saving us from these “education thieves” that are destroying this Great Nation! Only MY PEOPLE should have the right to a first class education!! Hurr durr. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/43 "2014-12-13T06:16:20Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > facts: It costs $12k per year to educate a student in my public school. Mr & Mrs X decide to sneak their son into the school system from a not-so-good neighboring town.? and they falsified their address to avoid paying $12K a year. Is it really fair to blame the family ? They had paperwork which said they lived in your town… They never agreed to pay $12K a year, they just sent their kids to the school and showed papers that said they were not blocked by the town boundaries… For that reason, it could be seen to be blackmail, slander or libel. So… can you send the bill for the student to the town he did live in ? Did they save $12K a year ? Or did they realise that they still had to pay for the buildings and the teachers, and they really didn’t save $12K… Just as your school really didn’t get a $12K increase in costs either. Even if it did, whats the result ? If the town is really broke, won’t it be asking for increased levys or grants or something ? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/44 "2014-12-13T06:33:20Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Exactly. Everyone knows that the United States is a third world country with limited resources. Such chicanery would plunge the nation into economic collapse faster than you could say “See Dick run.” > > Thank God for you and the OP saving us from these “education thieves” that are destroying this Great Nation! Only MY PEOPLE should have the right to a first class education!! > > Hurr durr. We thankfully have the ability to give everyone an acceptable education, but we cannot give to everyone what we can offer to only a few. Let’s face some facts: resources are limited, and education isn’t generally our country’s top priority. For some reason people find education a sacrosanct value that everyone deserves the best of. If a parent stole luxury clothing for their kid, or blackmailed a tutor into teaching their kids, or stole a luxury car to drive their kid to school, no one would doubt that they should go to jail. But for some reason there’s plenty of people that find committing fraud and stealing education perfectly acceptable. snip ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/45 "2014-12-13T06:44:43Z")
Let me put it this way: even if you believe that all kids are entitled to equally best educations, you should still oppose these parents. Parental involvement in a child’s education and in their school system are critical values for a child’s educational success. A society where parents could send their kids to any school would still result in richer parents having better educated kids, because richer parents invest more time and money in their kids educations, and could better identify better quality schools. So the rich will still win. But it would also result in a free-rider problem, where any school system that did well one year would be swamped with kids the next year, who would then do poorly since the school’s funding wouldn’t increase. So the school would do badly, and then the next year they’d do much better, since fewer kids would attend and they’d have more money per student, and so on. Its not a beneficial cycle either for the schools or for the students. In other words, if every parent did this, the system would be much worse than it is today. At least here, the ends don’t justify the means. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/46 "2014-12-13T07:16:47Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > For some reason people find education a sacrosanct value that everyone deserves the best of. If a parent stole luxury clothing for their kid, or blackmailed a tutor into teaching their kids, or stole a luxury car to drive their kid to school, no one would doubt that they should go to jail. But for some reason there’s plenty of people that find committing fraud and stealing education perfectly acceptable. > > snip Really? Who are these people? Where are they? And where are they “committing fraud” and “stealing education?” If this is such a prevalent issue, I’m sure you’ll have no problem demonstrating that there are “plenty” of people who engage in this “education theft.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/47 "2014-12-13T07:18:05Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > At least here, the ends don’t justify the means. The same would apply to the OP, who is basically stalking this poor guy, who had no say in it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/48 "2014-12-13T08:03:10Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Really? Who are these people? Where are they? And where are they “committing fraud” and “stealing education?” If this is such a prevalent issue, I’m sure you’ll have no problem demonstrating that there are “plenty” of people who engage in this “education theft.” The people who are committing fraud are those that were mentioned in the OP, and the people who find it acceptable were those in this thread, i.e. IvoryTowerDenizen. @Guinastasia, I don’t think what the OP is doing is very acceptable, and it should probably be handled by the proper authorities, but being a wacko with too much interest in other peoples lives’ pales in comparison to theft of services. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/49 "2014-12-13T08:13:40Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > The people who are committing fraud are those that were mentioned in the OP, and the people who find it acceptable were those in this thread, i.e. IvoryTowerDenizen. > > @Guinastasia, I don’t think what the OP is doing is very acceptable, and it should probably be handled by the proper authorities, but being a wacko with too much interest in other peoples lives’ pales in comparison to theft of services. Neither you nor the OP have demonstrated that anyone has been engaged in “theft of services.” ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/50 "2014-12-13T09:29:45Z")
Oops…somehow I misread the question. IANAL and without knowing all the details, which I don’t care to search for, I have no idea if this is blackmail, libel or slander. Maybe extortion? > [@](#): > > Extortion > > This crime is made up of a person unlawfully obtaining money or goods through coercion. The main elements have to do with the threat more than the changing of hands of any money or property. If a person makes a threat requiring a person to take a certain action in order to prevent them having to endure an unpleasant action in the future, it is extortion. [http://geoffreygnathanlaw.com/embezzlement-vs-extortion-in-mass/](http://geoffreygnathanlaw.com/embezzlement-vs-extortion-in-mass/) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/51 "2014-12-13T13:52:36Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Really? Who are these people? Where are they? And where are they “committing fraud” and “stealing education?” If this is such a prevalent issue, I’m sure you’ll have no problem demonstrating that there are “plenty” of people who engage in this “education theft.” > **[Ohio Mom Kelley Williams-Bolar Jailed for Sending Kids to Better School District](https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-mom-jailed-sending-kids-school-district/story?id=12763654)** > > An Ohio mother's attempt to provide her daughters with a better education has landed her behind bars. Kelley Williams-Bolar was convicted of lying about her residency to get her daughters into a better school district. > **[Watchdog report: Students illegally attending schools outside their hometown...](https://pressofatlanticcity.com/education/watchdog-report-students-illegally-attending-schools-outside-their-hometown-a/article_62d70688-6ab0-11e3-a0f3-0019bb2963f4.html)** > > Galloway Township had 60 students transfer out of its district during the last school year because they were attending illegally. > **[Child X-ing](https://www.texasobserver.org/child-x-ing/)** > > At first it looked like business as usual in the early morning hours of Wednesday, Sept. 9. The line of cars on the Del Rio International Toll Bridge stretched back toward Ciudad Acuña, Mexico, as people waited to cross northward. Headlights... > **[How stealing a better education for your kids can land you in jail](http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/america-tonight-blog/2014/1/20/stealing-educationsoledadobrien.html)** > > Soledad O’Brien reports on the desperate risks some parents take to send their children to an out-of-district school ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/52 "2014-12-13T14:32:54Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Really? Who are these people? Where are they? And where are they “committing fraud” and “stealing education?” If this is such a prevalent issue, I’m sure you’ll have no problem demonstrating that there are “plenty” of people who engage in this “education theft.” \ My kids are registered to the address of a family friend putting them at a national exemplary high school in a different district a couple blocks from where their mom works instead of the less preferable one where they live. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/53 "2014-12-13T16:13:12Z")
The sad thing is that the OP’s math is flawed. While it’s probably true that if you divide the school’s budget by the number of students, you probably get a figure of around $12K, I doubt the incremental cost of adding a single student is anything like $12K. I’m sure teachers aren’t paid by the head. It’s probably more of a step function where if you add enough students, you have to hire more staff and build more facilities. So there’s a grain of truth there in that if lots of people try to send their kids to this district, costs would increase markedly or the quality of education would diminish. But a handful of kids, more or less, won’t make a difference until you exceed the existing capacity of the current school. It’s interesting to note that it’s very unlikely that anyone’s property taxes in this town run to $12,000 year. So I wonder if the OP goes chasing after families with five kids who move to town for a handful of years, educate their kids to the tune of $300,000 and then move on, not having lived in the town nearly long enough to for the town to break even on the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/54 "2014-12-13T17:22:09Z")
I can agree that students skirting the system to attend school in another district is a problem. However, bizerta has raised the issue to the school district, and they appear to consider the matter closed. Presumably, the district has reached an agreeable settlement with the family or has decided that it’s just not worth pursuing further. In our society we don’t generally accept the idea of random people coming up with penalties for lawbreakers and trying to extract the penalty through whatever extralegal means they deem necessary. Bizerta’s gripe is with the school board. If he feels they are not doing their duty in enforcing the rules, I would suggest he has several options. He could make himself a nuisance at school board meetings, or sue the school district, or run for a spot on the school board, or petition his representative, or do lots of things to change the school board’s practices. But trying to pressure the family to fork over the amount of money he’s somehow determined they owe is no more appropriate than going around issuing your own parking tickets or dreaming up the penalty for income tax evaders. I don’t know if what he’s doing is blackmail, extortion, or some other crime. It is, however, kind of fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/55 "2014-12-13T18:12:24Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Neither you nor the OP have demonstrated that anyone has been engaged in “theft of services.” I’ve usually seen these case prosecuted as records fraud, rather than theft of services, but I can’t see what stops it from being theft by deception of services. In my state, for example, larceny includes both property and services, and petit larceny includes any value of property or services. See, e.g., ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/56 "2014-12-13T18:21:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve usually seen these case prosecuted as records fraud, rather than theft of services, but I can’t see what stops it from being theft by deception of services. In my state, for example, larceny includes both property and services, and petit larceny includes any value of property or services. See, e.g., Hit submit too soon! Left an absolutely opposite post as a result. I can’t see what stops it from being theft of services in states that include services in their theft or larceny statutes. My state does NOT includes services with property. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/57 "2014-12-13T19:52:33Z")
I’ve taught in two school districts where falsification of residence was a problem. It happens and it is more common than some in this thread would believe. It isn’t always about better educational opportunities, either. It is also frequently about sports i.e. playing for a team with a history of winning and producing pros. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/58 "2014-12-13T21:00:16Z")
Yeah my high school was known for this. Usually it was kids claiming a relative’s address. I never heard of anybody getting in trouble for it beyond kicked out (not expelled and it’s not the kid’s fault anyway) and forced to transfer. I either picture the OP as Javier Bardem as Anton Chigurh following a [Simpsons episode](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waverly_Hills,_9-0-2-1-D%27oh) about this topic or as [Beth Grant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Grant) (strident moral crusader in things like Donnie Darko). Petty at best and IANAL but doesn’t sound like blackmail if the information is already out there. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t get in trouble for it. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/59 "2014-12-13T21:22:58Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > So … Is it blackmail if I ask her to reimburse our town the $40k she stole (my opinion, of course) before I remove the web page? She paid her taxes to the government of the next town over, right? Does this not entitle her children to a public education? Why should it matter which school it took place at? For that matter, if you want to talk nickel and dimes, did _you_ personally pay exactly 12k in school taxes for every kid in your family for every year they were in school? Or maybe you paid a bit more or a lot less, depending on the value of your house. So it’s already a “public” effort, where the cost of education is split by property value and not kids, essentially charging the rich more to educate everyone…because the richer residents of a town can \*afford \*to pay more. The only “problem” this creates is that the school system of your town may have slightly less money per kid that the school district of the adjacent town. That problem is a matter between the 2 school districts, and ought to be settled between them. If one school district educates 10 kids from another district, that district ought to be paid the tax revenue share for those kids. It’s up to the districts if they want to fairly solve this problem or not - if they choose not to do so, what is it to you? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029/60 "2014-12-13T21:26:23Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > The people who are committing fraud are those that were mentioned in the OP, and the people who find it acceptable were those in this thread, i.e. IvoryTowerDenizen. > > @Guinastasia, I don’t think what the OP is doing is very acceptable, and it should probably be handled by the proper authorities, but being a wacko with too much interest in other peoples lives’ pales in comparison to theft of services. When you’re basically harassing minors and releasing personal information? The fuck it does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-blackmail/707029.md?page=4)