# Would this be irritating to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533 "2005-06-16T13:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/41 "2005-06-16T19:37:55Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > I had never considered such a thing, so the next time I saw him at the bar, I touched his hair. His hair felt so cool, I had to do it again. Oh, and by the way, I hate it when people do that. That is what people do to animals at petting zoos. You most definitely did not “have” to touch it once, much less again. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/42 "2005-06-16T19:46:44Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > IMO, it’s not a matter of “lightening up” it’s just basic respect for others. Respectfully, in your case it is a matter of lightening up. You are way, way overboard on the not-touching thing. If a pat on the back is a demonstration of disrespect, then you need to re-evaluate your outlook on this. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/43 "2005-06-16T19:50:03Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Respectfully, in your case it is a matter of lightening up. You are way, way overboard on the not-touching thing. If a pat on the back is a demonstration of disrespect, then you need to re-evaluate your outlook on this. No she bloody well does not! WHY do you need to touch me! Can’t you just tell me, “good job”? It’s creepy to be touched. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/44 "2005-06-16T19:57:10Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Oh, and by the way, I hate it when people do that. That is what people do to animals at petting zoos. You most definitely did not “have” to touch it once, much less again. Wow, you are way off on this. A friend can’t touch a friend’s head, especially when said friend made such a point of how cool it is? > [@](#): > > WHY do you need to touch me! Can’t you just tell me, “good job”? For one, most of us are human beings and touch is an important part of being human. Your reaction says more about you than it does about anything else. If you really have such a severe phobia, maybe you should look into getting a little counseling. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/45 "2005-06-16T20:05:47Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Respectfully, in your case it is a matter of lightening up. You are way, way overboard on the not-touching thing. If a pat on the back is a demonstration of disrespect, then you need to re-evaluate your outlook on this. Uh, you don’t know me. I’m a very casual person, but I don’t want people coming up and touching me at work. I wouldn’t freak out if someone patted me on the back, but I wouldn’t like it and I would likely avoid that person. I’m not at all unfriendly, but as a woman I don’t want to give the impression that I’m ok with being touched all of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/46 "2005-06-16T20:07:53Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > For one, most of us are human beings and touch is an important part of being human. Your reaction says more about you than it does about anything else. If you really have such a severe phobia, maybe you should look into getting a little counseling. :rolleyes: I like this. I don’t like something YOU like so I should be the one getting counseling. Why can’t you understand that personal space is different for different people? Touch is an important part of being human and I am very affectionate in my personal relationships but I don’t like casual acquaintances or work acquaintances to touch me. It’s not professional, and more so, I don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/47 "2005-06-16T20:08:55Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > For one, most of us are human beings and touch is an important part of being human. Your reaction says more about you than it does about anything else. If you really have such a severe phobia, maybe you should look into getting a little counseling. Yeah, one more thing - are you a guy? Cause if you’re a guy, I don’t see how you can comprehend how much different it is to be touched as a girl when most of us have been touched, unwanted, by some creepy guy. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/48 "2005-06-16T20:08:55Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > For one, most of us are human beings and touch is an important part of being human. Your reaction says more about you than it does about anything else. If you really have such a severe phobia, maybe you should look into getting a little counseling. Or you can come to grips with the fact that many young women don’t wish to be touched at work. I get my human touch at home or when I’m with friends. I don’t think it’s fair for you to say that she has a severe phobia or that I need to lighten up. You don’t know either of us and you’re in no position to make those kinds of judgments. ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/49 "2005-06-16T20:29:34Z")
Irritating doesn’t begin to describe what my reaction would be. Put me in the camp that says the only permissible touching in a professional relationship is a handshake or merely incidental contact. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/50 "2005-06-16T20:30:47Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > For one, most of us are human beings and touch is an important part of being human. Ever draw back a bloddy nub? 🙂 There are various religious reasons that people don’t want to be touched, too. ;j ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/51 "2005-06-16T21:44:28Z")
A pat on the back and a pat on the head are two different things. I could forgive a pat on the back a lot more easily, though I wouldn’t like it and I think that anything like that is inappropriate in a work setting. I’m really touchy-feely…with my boyfriend. At home. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/52 "2005-06-16T23:11:40Z")
Just one more data point here, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood and I never heard that rubbing a black person’s head was lucky. However, I was a catcher in Little League, and it was very much a belief that rubbing the catcher’s head was lucky. Especially as you were getting ready to go to bat. Didn’t matter if I had my hat on, or even the catcher’s mask. Everybody rubbed my head for luck. A lot. Didn’t bother me, they were all teammates, if it helped them feel lucky I was fine with it. That is a totally different thing than doing it at work, of course. Satch White, male, mostly bald for some time now. (hey, wait a minute…) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/53 "2005-06-16T23:31:32Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Respectfully, in your case it is a matter of lightening up. You are way, way overboard on the not-touching thing. If a pat on the back is a demonstration of disrespect, then you need to re-evaluate your outlook on this. Respectfully, be damned. Do NOT touch me, without my permission. Especially not my hair. It’s too fly-a-way and easily messed. I don’t know where you are from that it’s okay to just walk up and cop a feel off of someone unasked. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/54 "2005-06-16T23:49:36Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > :dubious: > > A sociology prof. of mine was also an advisor of my fraternity. He was also black. In class he commented how white people love to touch black people’s hair. I had never considered such a thing, so the next time I saw him at the bar, I touched his hair. His hair felt so cool, I had to do it again. And you know what? I bet he did all he could do to keep from going off on you. I don’t mind if someone asks if they can touch my hair. I will always let them if they ask. What I don’t like is when people take the liberty of touching my hair and rubbing it as if I’m a damn dog. I’m not a dog. I’m not a freak. My hair is not weird. I did not spend X amount of effort on my hair in the morning only to have Curious George muss it up before lunchtime. Touching it once would be inappropriate. Touching it again would be worthy of a beat down. Especially if I’m older than you are and/or have a power position over you (like a college professor). That people do not understand how rude this behavior is…just amazing. > [@](#): > > Google turns back so few hits on the topic that I’m quite skeptical it’s genuine. I’ve certainly never heard of it, nor had my sociology prof. who was from the south. He just said that whites got a kick out of the feel of blacks’ hair; a fair statement I later discovered. What are you skeptical about? That racist whites once upon a time rubbed black people’s heads for good luck? Even if this is an urban legend (and I don’t think it is), I think you cannot argue that patting or rubbing someone on the head is often a nonverbal way of expressing dominance over that person. Back in the “bad ole days”, racist whites would manhandle black people with impunity because of their priviledge over them. A white could touch a black person all they wanted. A black touching a white person was a serious crime. So I don’t find it hard to believe at all that some idiots thought touching a “coon” on his head was good luck. I’m sure there are a lot of whites who take a kick out of touching black people’s hair. There are a lot of men who take a kick out of touching women’s breasts, too. In both cases, their “kick” needs to stay to themselves unless someone explicitly gives them permission. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/55 "2005-06-17T00:04:26Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Respectfully, in your case it is a matter of lightening up. You are way, way overboard on the not-touching thing. If a pat on the back is a demonstration of disrespect, then you need to re-evaluate your outlook on this. You are so wrong, dude. People have a right wish for their bodies not to be touched. There’s so much around us that we can’t control. We should at least have the comfort of intruder-free personal space. I used to have a boss who would grab your upper arm when he wanted to talk to you. At first, I just thought it was a funny little habit. Then I noticed that he only did it with the female employees. I never told him not to touch me because it was only mildy irritating and I didn’t want our relationship to become awkward. But he shouldn’t have put me or the other women in the position to be uncomfortable. That kind of touch is reserved for friends and loved ones. Not for people working for you. If the anti-touchies need to lighten up, the touchies need to back the fuck up. I can’t help getting skeeved out if you grab my arm. You _can_ help grabbing my arm. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/56 "2005-06-17T00:07:39Z")
I often heard, during my younger days, that rubbing a black person’s hair was a good way to “change your luck,” presumably for the better. In my view it is racist conduct and it bespeaks, if not a racist attitude, profound disregard for another’s feelings. I commend the OP for not losing his/her temper. I also believe there are times when losing one’s temper (or pretending to lose one’s temper) is the only course of action and this is one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/57 "2005-06-17T00:16:08Z")
Um, yah, it would be irritating to me. It’s condescending, and shows a huge lack of respect for you. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/58 "2005-06-17T00:21:54Z")
I had also heard of this “rub the black man or child’s head for luck” before, and yes, it is a patronizing/racist/dominance thing. The guys may have had a case of ignorance rather than conscious racism, but you don’t do this in a place of employment. The legal definition of assault in my state includes “unwanted touching”. Of course no one would call the police for most pats or taps, but the boundary between the legal and illegal involves contact with a person’s body, or clothes. Monstro can professionally and firmly inform the men that they are not to touch her any more. It’s not about the mussing of the hair, it’s about the intrusion beyond the boundaries. If they laugh and continue, then it’s straight to the boss, and if necessary up the ladder. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/59 "2005-06-17T00:46:30Z")
I would be puzzled and possibly irritated if this happened to me, depending on how well I knew the co-workers and what I felt about them. I am a white male, so things are definitely different for me than the OP. I _don’t_ like the racist connotations of rubbing a black person’s hair for good luck. This is the sort of thing that should only be done after politely asking permission and receiving an affirmative reply. You shouldn’t even _ask_ permission until you have established a good relationship with the person. And they **always** have the right to say no, no matter what. Your head is such a personal place and, unless your hair is pretty short, touching it will mess up your hairstyle. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533/60 "2005-06-17T02:55:26Z")
**Monstro** , If it happens again (or even if it doesn’t), you might have a bit of fun by asking the patters outright why they think it’s good luck to pat your head. If they say that head patting is good luck, ask why they’re not patting other peoples’ heads in addition to yours. If there’s a racial basis to their behavior (and I think there is), you should be able to make them squirm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-be-irritating-to-you/308533.md?page=4)