# Would this commercial be allowed if the roles were reversed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 21, 2000, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659 "2000-12-21T05:58:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/21 "2000-12-21T23:53:24Z")
A hijack but… that commercial with the women oogling the man was for diet Coke, and it had Lucky Vanos in it. Personally, I didn’t get the attraction-he wasn’t THAT good looking…kind of flabby. ---
**Author:** ![Show\_Biz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@Show\_Biz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Show_Biz)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/22 "2000-12-21T23:54:01Z")
I’m guessing the roles WERE reversed. That it was originally pitched to the client as a panty raid. But they had better sense. ---
**Author:** ![avacado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@avacado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/avacado)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/23 "2000-12-21T23:55:04Z")
I think the “wit” of the commercial is the reversal of the expected, like the Diet Coke commercial from a few years ago (professional women take daily Diet Coke breaks at the same time as a shirtless construction worker outside in order to leer at him). Remember folks, commercials are intended to _sell_. Empowered people buy things. If Bud can sell beer to guys by using cute gals, they will. If Coke (or whoever) can sell to women by using cute guys, they will. By the way, what about the Kodak commercial with the woman who enlarges an office photo to include only her and the adjacent guy, and spots the guy when leaving the photo store. She would be embarassed, but he made _the exact same picture_. Two creepy people deserve each other. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/24 "2000-12-22T00:01:42Z")
: I suppose you could get a more, ahem, “balanced” : treatment of gender issues on (_snicker_) Jerry Springer. : In between the fistfights, that is. Nope. When punches still flew on a regular basis a couple of years ago, it was common to see women punching away at men, without the off-duty Chicago cops getting in the way. If a man even stood up while his girlfriend or wife was taunting him, however, he’d be slammed back into his seat. I’m not saying that men should have been allowed to hit women, but rather nobody should have been allowed to hit anyone. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/25 "2000-12-22T00:09:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by featherlou \* > \*\*I’m definitely with the guys on this one - if it’s wrong when you objectify women, then it’s wrong when you objectify men. IMHO, prejudices are like a pendulum - first they swing one way, then they seem to swing the other. The trick is to stop the pendulum completely. \*\* 'Scuse me while I stand and applaud madly; damned well put and perceived, **featherlou**! I _hate_ the commercials that bash guys. They’re ugly and insulting on a human level. A lot mentioned here ring bells, but the one I recall is for a cold medicine. An adult male is sick in bed, but depicted as a pudgy, whiny pest. The woman brings in the Miracle Med–“for _your_ baby!”. The final shot is the guy happily playing w/ tissues and bouncing w/ excitement as he watches television. I’m sorry, that’s offensive. It’s as bad as the old dippy women jokes: “let’s park here and walk to the curb! ring around the collar!” etc. If it belittles, it’s a cheap shot. Veb (who’s female, btw) ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/26 "2000-12-22T02:31:01Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Peculiar Pixie \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I agree wholeheartedly. My point was that when men complain of being depicted negatively, it sounds ludicrous because those depictions _present zero danger to them_. The status quo is not going to change because someone made a car commercial depicting some poor schmo as a, well, schmo. The powers that have kept white men at the top of the pyramid are not weakened by what is shown on television. > However, the women’s movement and woman-related social issues are very dependent upon media and grassroots support. A derisive representation of them is much more likely to make a dent in the effectiveness of their efforts to assert their rights. > > It’s like hearing an elephant whine about a chipped tusk, while the mice run around among its feet, trying not to get squished. \*\* Oh, cry me a river. Don’t you think that, if something is derisive, it’s not also divisive? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/27 "2000-12-22T02:54:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by B\_\_P \* > \*\*It would seem to me that in this day and age of extreme political correctness, the only “type” of person the media (or anyone else for that matter) can bash is white males. If you’re female, black, Asian, Mexican, anything else, you’re safe. But if you’re a white guy, forget about it - you’re wrong and you will be made fun of mercilessly. > \*\* Yeah, right. White guys just can’t get an even break in this topsy-turvy culture. :rolleyes: If you think you can’t find insulting, mocking depictions of females and nonwhites in contemporary media, I invite you to turn on your television. You will find them by the dozens in the first 10 to 12 channels, I assure you. ---
**Author:** ![Peculiar\_Pixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@Peculiar\_Pixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peculiar_Pixie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/28 "2000-12-22T03:11:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Manda JO \* > Most libral arts programs are overwhelmingly female these days, and it sparks a vicious cycle–upcoming Freshmen see that intellectual studies are “girl things” and that they are neither welcomed nor expected to be interested in anything that is not immediatly practical (business, computers, etc.)_\* I am pretty sure that has nothing to do with what is shown in commercials. In fact, the prominence of women in the “liberal arts” may be because **they** are being steered away from careers in science and technology. Which would create a campus where the chicks do all the thinking (and get allegedly useless diplomas like B.A.s), and the men get to do all the engineering and chemistry (and move onto lucrative careers). Woo-hoo! Status quo remains the same! ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/29 "2000-12-22T03:31:02Z")
Back in college, I took an entry level marketing course where we talked a little about this. The basic theory is that when men see a commercial where the woman is right and the man is wrong, men tend to not notice or care. When the man is right and the woman is made out to be wrong, the company is flooded with complaints from women who were offended. Hence the reason why the woman smirks as the man decides to try “His Detergent” on that grass stain (is there a man on the planet who actually HAS a dedication to a laundry detergent?) while she knows that Whisko Plus will wipe that stain off the map and why Campbell’s is letting us know that their soup comes in a pop-open can, premixed with water so women won’t have to fret over their troglodyte husbands who have yet to master the can opener and that “one can of water” trick. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/30 "2000-12-22T03:56:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peculiar Pixie \* > \*\* > > … My point was that when men complain of being depicted negatively, it sounds ludicrous because those depictions _present zero danger to them_. The status quo is not going to change because someone made a car commercial depicting some poor schmo as a, well, schmo. The powers that have kept white men at the top of the pyramid are not weakened by what is shown on television. > \*\* Cogent arguement, and I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I come at it from a different angle. Advertising is the most cynical, reactive critter going. It reacts to public opinion like a spider detecting vibrations in the web. The glitz and pervasiveness are misleading: advertising tries to manipulate what sells, nothing more. But it’s not very fast or astute in spotting realities sometimes. Sure took 'em a while to notice that blacks, women, hispanics, etc. have a market impact–and don’t buy products that insult them. What bothers me is “man bashing” tactics are used for products that seem to be targeted toward women. I’m a kickass, unapologetic “old” feminist who still believes that the whole point is _human_ dignity–and responsiblity. I’m not blaming advertisers, because they’re the cart, not the horse. It just baffles me, the mindset that appeals by belittling. I guess my question is, why aren’t more women pissed as hell on behalf of their fathers, and husbands, and sons–and for themselves for being patronized? Veb ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/31 "2000-12-22T03:57:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manda JO \* > \*\*Actually, I will disagree with you here. As a libral arts major married to a libral arts major, I have to say that in my experience men are becoming less and less welcome in “high culture”. Most libral arts programs are overwhelmingly female these days, and it sparks a vicious cycle–upcoming Freshmen see that intellectual studies are “girl things” and that they are neither welcomed nor expected to be interested in anything that is not immediatly practical (business, computers, etc.) When it gets to the point where men are under serious pressure to regard thinking as inapproprite for thier gender, they are suffering a real disadvantage. I think that we are creating a paradigm where the expectations for men are very low and are primarily hormonal. \*\* Just a brief shout before signing off for the holidays… Anyone who thinks network engineering and systems design isn’t a ‘thinking job’ has never tried to do either. Let’s keep our biases to a minimum, shall we? -JC (Who has two liberal arts degrees and has been a network admin, webmaster, and is now director of marketing for a trade publisher) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/32 "2000-12-22T04:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by broccoli! \* > \*\*Have you ever tried to do the laundry for a woman? Or even fold the towels? I bet you did it wrong, didn’t’cha? \*\* This just reminded me of the several times my husband did laundry very wrong. Like washing my brand new red cotton skirt with everything else. Voila! Everything was pink! Except that light blue skirt in there, which was now sort of dirt colored. He’s done this a number of times. He once washed a yellow skirt of mine with a a purple dress. The skirt turned dry-booger-colored. I taught him though, he’s much better now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/33 "2000-12-22T13:51:03Z")
Boy, this fire is burning pretty good, but it seems to be missing something . . . what might that be . . . Oh, I know, we need some gasoline. Here let me get some . . . I can’t believe that this discussion hasn’t gotten to the Dixie Chicks song “Earl had to die.” Now, Eminem did have a song where he makes an ironic reference to killing his ex-wife and has been thoroughly villified by many. But hardly a whisper has been heard about the Dixie Chicks song about killing an abusive husband. This seems to be a more extreme case of what has been discussed above. Did either cross a line? Please, discuss amongst yourselves . . . ---
**Author:** ![broccoli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@broccoli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/broccoli)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/34 "2000-12-22T13:51:53Z")
_mental note: Do laundry wrong on purpose. Do this often enough to not have to do laundry, but not too often as to spark a war with S.O… After ‘lesson’ on laundry, do laundry correctly once or twice, then relapse. If S.O. notices I lived on my own for years and had no problem with my own laundry, feign coma and/or heart attack…_ ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/35 "2000-12-22T14:30:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peculiar Pixie \* > \*\*In fact, the prominence of women in the “liberal arts” may be because **they** are being steered away from careers in science and technology. Which would create a campus where the chicks do all the thinking (and get allegedly useless diplomas like B.A.s), and the men get to do all the engineering and chemistry (and move onto lucrative careers). > \*\* There was a great story in the _Washington Post_ today that really made me feel good, that’s related to this topic. I suppose conclusions can be drawn to support either side, but I thought the article itself was fantastic. You can read it [here](http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38705-2000Dec21.html) BTW, I do nearly **all** the laundry in my house, and my wife wouldn’t have it any other way! ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/36 "2000-12-22T16:29:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LateComer \* > \*\* > I can’t believe that this discussion hasn’t gotten to the Dixie Chicks song “Earl had to die.” Now, Eminem did have a song where he makes an ironic reference to killing his ex-wife and has been thoroughly villified by many. But hardly a whisper has been heard about the Dixie Chicks song about killing an abusive husband. This seems to be a more extreme case of what has been discussed above. Did either cross a line? > > Please, discuss amongst yourselves . . . > \*\* Well your premise is wrong…there WAS a big stink about the Dixie Chicks song when it came out…as a matter of fact, the liner notes specifically state that the Dixie Chicks do not advocate what the protagonists in the song did. [http://www.countrycool.com/openmic/0317\_froggychic.html](http://www.countrycool.com/openmic/0317_froggychic.html) [http://www.theenews.com/Country\_Bulletin/messages/2519.html](http://www.theenews.com/Country_Bulletin/messages/2519.html) [http://www.newmediamusic.com/musicianspr/dixiechicks.html](http://www.newmediamusic.com/musicianspr/dixiechicks.html) [http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/040600/ent\_earl.shtml](http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/040600/ent_earl.shtml) FWIW, I read an interview with the writer of the song…he compared it to Sweeney Todd or other “dark” comedies… ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/37 "2000-12-22T17:36:19Z")
What about the new series on Fox, “Dark Angel”? I was watching her kick the shit out of men (on every single episode) and I wondered aloud, “If it was some super-man kicking the living shit out of women, would it still be ok?” I guess this applies to this thread, because all of the promos for the show are shots of her acting all feminine “Oh, you poor baby” and then kicking them in the balls. I don’t know, maybe I’m the only one who sees a problem with that… ---
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/38 "2000-12-22T17:37:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\*Yeah, right. White guys just can’t get an even break in this topsy-turvy culture. :rolleyes: > > If you think you can’t find insulting, mocking depictions of females and nonwhites in contemporary media, I invite you to turn on your television. You will find them by the dozens in the first 10 to 12 channels, I assure you. \*\* Yes, watch the commercials on Nickelodeon and see what kind of images of children are on there! Drives me crazy! My girls _like_ Hotwheels and dinosaurs. A boy I babysat liked to style my daughter’s hair and play grocery shopping and tea party. If you watch very long, you can also catch some other stereotypical references other than gender. ---
**Author:** ![B\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@B\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B_P)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/39 "2000-12-22T17:41:53Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by pldennison_ > > If you think you can’t find insulting, mocking depictions of females and nonwhites in contemporary media, I invite you to turn on your television. You will find them by the dozens in the first 10 to 12 channels, I assure you. I’m not saying that white males are the only ones being made fun of on TV. Other cultures are, but it’s always “safe” humor. It’s never really _that_ bad. You can pretty much say anything bad about a white guy on TV - call him any name, make fun of any feature, make him look as stupid as you can - but when it comes to other ethnic groups, you can only go so far. Everyone, especially in the media, is scared to death of being labled a racist these days. ---
**Author:** ![SoMoMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@SoMoMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoMoMom)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659/40 "2000-12-22T17:47:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by LateComer \* > > \*\* > > I can’t believe that this discussion hasn’t gotten to the Dixie Chicks song “Earl had to die.” Now, Eminem did have a song where he makes an ironic reference to killing his ex-wife and has been thoroughly villified by many. But hardly a whisper has been heard about the Dixie Chicks song about killing an abusive husband. This seems to be a more extreme case of what has been discussed above. Did either cross a line? > > > > Please, discuss amongst yourselves . . . > > \*\* > > Well your premise is wrong…there WAS a big stink about the Dixie Chicks song when it came out…as a matter of fact, the liner notes specifically state that the Dixie Chicks do not advocate what the protagonists in the song did. > > FWIW, I read an interview with the writer of the song…he compared it to Sweeney Todd or other “dark” comedies… \*\* My nephew wants his rock band to cover this song in punk-style. He thinks it is a great song and a male punk band doing it would give it an interesting twist. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-commercial-be-allowed-if-the-roles-were-reversed/46659.md?page=3)