# Would this form of torture work in real life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 27, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252 "2011-08-27T01:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/21 "2011-08-27T09:30:51Z")
We have documentation from the Middle Ages up to modern times that are evidence of the use of rats and other animals in torture – the people involved in those interrogations were, after all, doing it in an official capacity which has always led to paperwork; I’ve seen a couple of medieval rat cages, well, actually, we know all the instruments that were used in the bad old times and if you are interested, you might, among many other places, visit the [Foltermusem in Rüdesheim](http://www.foltermuseum.com/index_us.html). And even in modern times, rats are still an instrument of torture. The [Comisión Nacional de Prisión Política y Tortura](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valech_Report), for example, lists the reports of thousands of political prisoners during Pinochet’s regime. More than a few former prisoners have something to say about rats and their teeth. Those testimonies are as close to unbearable to read as you will likely get – don’t say, I didn’t warn you, if you decide to take a look. My impression is that if you can think of a method to inflict terror and pain, it has already been done. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/22 "2011-08-27T12:33:33Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > It’s from Fast and Furious 2. I got drug to it. They put the rat on his stomach, put the bucket over it, then heat it up with a torch or something. He finally says whatever he’s supposed to and they lift the bucket. His stomach is scratched and bleeding. Yup, I remember that scene. And I also remember thinking that it was a really convoluted way of doing things. The bad guy has a blowtorch on hand - what does he need the rats for ? Just fry the guy’s balls and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/23 "2011-08-27T12:56:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yup, I remember that scene. And I also remember thinking that it was a really convoluted way of doing things. The bad guy has a blowtorch on hand - what does he need the rats for ? Just fry the guy’s balls and be done with it. Of course, still not the most convoluted or silly thing ever done in a Fast and the Furious film. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/24 "2011-08-27T16:07:38Z")
In an episode of Criminal Minds, when the bad guys realized one of their group was an undercover cop, they left him tied up in a cellar with a bunch of hungry rats. And a video they made of the last guy who got the same treatment. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/25 "2011-08-27T20:29:39Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > … > > Personally, I don’t think it would work that well. Is a rat smart enough to figure out ‘the metal above me is hot. I shall burrow down to escape’? I can easily see the rat just panicking and doing nothing. I’m going out a limb here, but I bet you haven’t hung out with a lots of rats? “Doing nothing” does not comes naturally to rats at the best of times. Make them feel threatened in ANY way? “Nothing” is not an option; they will run everywhere they can with their sharp little claws and bite anything they can get a tooth into. I like rats (well, not wild rats) and I would lose it if one was trapped against my bare skin. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/26 "2011-08-27T22:00:35Z")
Yyyyeah, it really doesn’t take human level intelligence to process the situation ‘there is danger in all directions but one, and that direction is soft’ and come to the conclusion ‘why don’t I do to the soft surface what I do to soft surfaces _all the damn time_?’ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/27 "2011-08-27T22:09:25Z")
Especially when that surface isn’t just soft, but actually made of food. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/28 "2011-08-27T23:08:01Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > This method of torture,including heating the metal bowl or bucket, is also described in detail in the film Graveyard Shift. > > Personally, I don’t think it would work that well. Is a rat smart enough to figure out ‘the metal above me is hot. I shall burrow down to escape’? I can easily see the rat just panicking and doing nothing. Rats are really damn smart, and while I believe my pet rats who like me a lot would hold off on biting me a few seconds longer than a wild rat (who I doubt would wait at all), I believe if threatened they would do whatever they had to do to escape. And their teeth are damn sharp, and so are un-trimmed claws. Yuck. People are fucked up, what they do to each other. ETA: I know this was “just a movie” but someone above referenced real rat torture; that’s what I was thinking of ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/29 "2011-08-28T01:55:13Z")
Put it this way. You find yourself in a prison cell. They will come to execute you in 1 hour. The walls are 5 feet thick, and made of chocolate. Is eating your way out a realistic goal? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/30 "2011-08-28T02:02:32Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Put it this way. You find yourself in a prison cell. They will come to execute you in 1 hour. The walls are 5 feet thick, and made of chocolate. Is eating your way out a realistic goal? Milk Chocolate, Dark Chocolate, or White Chocolate? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/31 "2011-08-28T02:04:05Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Put it this way. You find yourself in a prison cell. They will come to execute you in 1 hour. The walls are 5 feet thick, and made of chocolate. Is eating your way out a realistic goal? YES. But seriously…why not at least try? If you think you’re going to die anyway, you’re going to be doing some pretty crazy things just to survive. I doubt a rat or a person would think, “Hmm, doesn’t make sense, I’ll just sit tight.” Plus, the rat doesn’t even know how long it has – why not try to biting the soft, fleshy thing? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/32 "2011-08-28T02:12:29Z")
Your analogy is nonsensical. Humans aren’t rats. Our anatomy isn’t adapted to gnawing through shit, nor is ‘gnawing through shit’ a common part of our behaviour. Rats, on the other hand, are supremely physically adapted to gnawing, and they do a lot of it, including on substances a lot harder than human flesh - it is, as mentioned, their typical way of getting past a barrier. A proper analogy is ‘you’re locked in a cell, with a knife. One wall is about as thick as your head and made of a soft, pliable material, while the other three are made of metal and are painfully hot to the touch, do you consider cutting a hole in the fourth wall, or sit in the cell baking’? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/33 "2011-08-28T03:31:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yup, I remember that scene. And I also remember thinking that it was a really convoluted way of doing things. The bad guy has a blowtorch on hand - what does he need the rats for ? Just fry the guy’s balls and be done with it. Yeah, but then you’ve wasted a perfectly good crooked cop. Assuming he breaks before the rat actually gets into his abdominal cavity, no one besides his wife is ever going to see the scratches. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/34 "2011-08-28T04:04:46Z")
Or just do what the Punisher did, and torture him with a blow torch, a steak, and a popsicle. That way, you don’t even have to harm the guy at all. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/35 "2011-08-28T10:05:32Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Yeah, but then you’ve wasted a perfectly good crooked cop. Assuming he breaks before the rat actually gets into his abdominal cavity, no one besides his wife is ever going to see the scratches. People in the PD are going to look at his balls ?! Man. American police is more fucked up that I thought 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/36 "2011-08-28T12:55:27Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > A proper analogy is ‘you’re locked in a cell, with a knife. **One wall is about as thick as your head** and made of a soft, pliable material, while the other three are made of metal and are painfully hot to the touch, do you consider cutting a hole in the fourth wall, or sit in the cell baking’? But it isn’t, though. Think of a human body compared to a rat. The wall isn’t "as thick as your head, " it’s as thick as your body is long. And the wall may be made of soft, pliable material, but you can only remove bits from it by swallowing them. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/37 "2011-08-28T12:58:10Z")
Right, because a rat is going to be considering how thick your abdomen is when it finds itself being cooked alive. It’s going to start clawing at something- ANYTHING- to get out. And guess what? Your soft, non-blowtorch-heated belly is it. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/38 "2011-08-28T15:50:49Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > But it isn’t, though. Think of a human body compared to a rat. The wall isn’t "as thick as your head, " it’s as thick as your body is long. And the wall may be made of soft, pliable material, but you can only remove bits from it by swallowing them. It’s mostly(?) empty space. Chew through the abdominal muscles, and you (as a rat) can burrow between the intestines, and then you just need to chew a small hole in the back (or a side) and you’re out. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/39 "2011-08-28T16:26:48Z")
The rat doesn’t need to visualize the inside of your body to decide to do something. It’s irrelevant how thick your abdominal wall is. The rat will attempt to burrow out of the heating cage. If your abdomen was nine feet thick the rat would still try, he’d just try and fail. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252/40 "2011-08-28T16:44:33Z")
In the book _The Jungle_, Upton Sinclair has one of his characters get drunk, pass out, and then get eaten alive by rats. That scene, even though it’s rendered second-hand, had me saying, “Yeah, right. Nibbled on? Maybe. Full out eaten? Bullshit.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-form-of-torture-work-in-real-life/594252.md?page=3)