# Would this 'lie' bother you or be a non-issue **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 13, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809 "2016-03-13T00:21:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blackstock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c77e96/32.png) [@Blackstock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackstock)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/21 "2016-03-13T05:20:47Z")
I also think this is all about the fact that he might have never been officially married with all that means to a woman (in terms of how big deal it is to them and what conclusions they draw from it while assessing a guy as a potential SO). ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/22 "2016-03-13T05:31:27Z")
It’s all a bit “Marcia, Marcia, Marcia” for mine. Adolescent nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/23 "2016-03-13T06:02:59Z")
Another vote for “Friend” is a mental case. Where and how did this loon get into your “friend” bucket? If I found one of these in mine, I’d really start thinking about my selection criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/24 "2016-03-13T06:28:53Z")
It doesn’t sound as if they were really “involved” yet. The fact that it was a de facto rather than a de jure marriage is material, and it’s the kind of thing he should make sure she’s aware of when and if they do embark on a serious relationship. But it seems like they’re a long way from that point, and if he personally considers it unimportant, I don’t see why he should have been expected to say anything about it. In other words, he didn’t lie and your friend is nutty. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/25 "2016-03-13T12:25:12Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Another vote for “Friend” is a mental case. > Where and how did this loon get into your “friend” bucket? If I found one of these in mine, I’d really start thinking about my selection criteria. Marcia was new to the area and another ‘friend’ Sue introduced her around. Marcia and I had a falling out back in December, but she recently started calling/texting me, which brought all the reasons for the falling out back to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/26 "2016-03-13T12:28:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Hope I didn’t sound like a jerk. You bumped one of my pet peeves. > > I used to run a B2B sales business with about 20 women employees. And one guy other than myself. So often my admin assistant (a woman) would tell me that the ops manager (woman) told the assistant about a conversation between one of our workers (woman) and a customer employee (woman). > > So when there was a problem I’d get a verbal report: “She said that she said that she said X and then she said Y then she said Z and then she said Q which made her say B. And so now it’s a mess. Can you fix it?” My response: 😕😕😕 > > Over the space of about 6 months I trained all pronouns out of that assistant. She originally was resistant until she realized that she never knew who was saying what when the other women were talking to her. So she started getting on their cases about all the “shes” & “hers” with never any names. I was so proud of her when that started. (And yes, all “shes” and “hers” in this paragraph refer to my assistant. Bless her.) No, not a jerk. I get irritated with my mother for doing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/27 "2016-03-13T12:39:46Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I know lots of people who have a “wife” or “husband” despite the lack of a marriage certificate. I have a hard time seeing this as deceptive, though. Except in a few narrow legal issues, it really makes no difference. Unless he’s made specific claims like “The law says I must do x because we were legally married” then he’s done nothing dishonest. > > However, I could see maybe being upset in some other ways if I was the girlfriend in this situation. For example, she may be thinking “He’s been married in the past. So he’s the kind of guy who settles down and gets married. So there’s hope for this relationship being permanent in the way that I want.” Finding out that he was never technically married kind of ruins her chain of assumptions. It might justify being upset, but doesn’t make him a liar. I could see her thinking that way. She makes a lot of assumptions. For all she knows, Paul may have wanted to marry but his ‘wife’ didn’t want to. Or just because he didn’t marry this woman doesn’t mean he will never marry. This is the same friend I mentioned in another thread that was upset because Paul’s ex was involved with another man within two weeks of the breakup. Marcia wanted to know what was _wrong with Paul_ that his ex was able to get over him so quickly. That was a real wtf moment for me. Her brain works in ways that baffle me. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/28 "2016-03-13T13:41:56Z")
I once was the recipient of the opposite of the OP. A cop who asked me out after proclaiming that he was “single, single, single, never married”. Never married, true in a literal sense. Father of three weekend children by three different exes, also true. I got out of Tucson before there was any chance of becoming Mother Number Four. The situation in the OP is what’s called in English a “common-law marriage”. To me, there is no lie involved; only less paperwork (or, depending on the situation, different paperwork) than if there had ever been a legally-binding wedding. If there are any children involved, there are custody issues; having common property (which after 15 years you do accumulate, even if you’ve done your best to keep my stuff and their stuff) there are division of property issues… they just get solved differently depending on the paperwork involved, but that’s a procedural difference, not a social one. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/29 "2016-03-13T13:55:33Z")
If it were a somewhat different situation, I could see Marcia being furious about being lied to. Like say if Paul gives being married as a reason for doing or not doing something. For example, he can’t marry Marcia until he gets a divorce, and he has to get his wife to agree because a contested one will cost too much money so of course, any wedding plans with Marcia will have to wait. ( I actually know someone wo used a variation of this- although that was a lie , too. His wife wanted a divorce, and _he_ wouldn’t agree , apparently because he did not want to be available to marry his new girlfriend) ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/30 "2016-03-13T14:02:08Z")
If it was the other way around, and she found out his ex-girlfriend was actually his ex-wife, that would be something worth getting upset about. As-is? No. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/31 "2016-03-13T14:02:35Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > Sorry friend is female. Her ex is male. > I knew what I meant, but yeah too many pronouns. > > \*A while back a friend of mine, Marcia, was contacted on FB by an old flame, Paul, from high-school. They are both in their late 40s > Paul told Marcia that he and his wife had split up a few months prior, they had been together for 15 years and have a 12 year old daughter. > > Marcia and Paul started talking and made plans to get together. Paul lives several states away. Marcia is hoping they will rekindle the old romance and it will lead to a long term relationship. > > One day Marcia calls me up, mad as hell and close to tears because Paul ‘lied’ to her. > > The lie? Paul always referred to his ex as his wife, and Marcia had just found out that Paul and ‘his wife’ had never been legally married. Marcia was furious that Paul ‘lied’ to her, and she was ending it now. > > I said what lie? They were together for 15 years, longer than a lot of marriages, and have a daughter. Lots of people who live together refer to each other as husband and wife. I don’t see what the big deal is, I don’t know what difference it makes - except he is free now and doesn’t need to go through the divorce process. > > Would you see it as a lie? A deal breaker? > \* It’s not a lie and not a deal breaker. But in this case, it’s lucky for Paul that it is a deal breaker because Marcia is the crazy. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/32 "2016-03-13T20:07:58Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > Would you see it as a lie? A deal breaker? My answer to that would be influenced by _exactly_ what he said, but my read on this situation is that she is overreacting or reacting to something else. BUT, that doesn’t mean you should try and talk her out of the breakup. Either she is reacting appropriately to something you are not entirely aware of, in which case … her reaction is appropriate. Or she is reacting bizarrely to something minor, in which case she is likely to do that again, and the relationship is likely doomed. I once saw a talk show where someone gave this advice to a woman who suspected her boyfriend was cheating: it doesn’t matter. The relationship is over. Either it is over because he violated your trust by cheating, or it is over because you just couldn’t trust him even though he did nothing wrong. And figuring out which one it is might help you in future relationships, but it won’t help you with this one. If you get proof he never cheated, you should still leave him because _you don’t trust him_, and that lack of trust will drive him away. ---
**Author:** ![incidental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/22d042/32.png) [@incidental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/incidental)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/33 "2016-03-13T22:07:48Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > I used to call my ex “my husband” at times when it simplified life. There really is no good English term for a long-term relationship. “Girlfriend/boyfriend” sound temporary and juvenile, “partner” and “significant other” are both kind of inane, and that leaves nothing, really, other than husband and wife, which describe the relationship fairly accurately. This. The English language is imprecise at times. Sometimes you play it a little loose - my Grandmother never married her third partner, but they were together for decades. He wasn’t biologically related to me, but for all intents and purposes, he was my Grandfather. Who wants to explain all of that baggage? He gets rounded up to Grandfather in casual conversation. Sounds like this guy did something similar. I agree with everyone else - if there’s a problem, it’s with your friend. This is a minor offense at best. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/34 "2016-03-14T13:50:02Z")
I’ve called my now-fiancé my husband at times. It just short-circuits the whole thing, I mean we are in a committed relationship, going on 20 years now. It’s not really strangers’ business that we are not actually married. However, I wouldn’t deceive someone close to me about it. That being said, this is not a HUGE LIE, this is just a “Why didn’t you tell me you weren’t married?” I swear, some people feed off drama, instead of just reasonably talking things out. I’ve come to the cynical conclusion, that when some people are happy, they don’t recognize it as happiness, because it’s too mundane and not full of fireworks every single second, so they stir up some drama to feel excitement. Happiness is an ongoing state of affairs and you cannot maintain fireworks that long. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/35 "2016-03-14T14:22:36Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I once was the recipient of the opposite of the OP. A cop who asked me out after proclaiming that he was “single, single, single, never married”. Never married, true in a literal sense. Father of three weekend children by three different exes, also true. I got out of Tucson before there was any chance of becoming Mother Number Four. > > The situation in the OP is what’s called in English a “common-law marriage”. To me, there is no lie involved; only less paperwork (or, depending on the situation, different paperwork) than if there had ever been a legally-binding wedding. If there are any children involved, there are custody issues; having common property (which after 15 years you do accumulate, even if you’ve done your best to keep my stuff and their stuff) there are division of property issues… they just get solved differently depending on the paperwork involved, but that’s a procedural difference, not a social one. Not exactly. Texas is one of the states with Common Law Marriage. The phrase is not a synonym for “Living Together.” A Common Law couple did not marry officially but they’ve held themselves out as married & must divorce if they want to split. This case seems simpler. Married or not, children must be provided for–let’s hope the father is fulfilling more than his monetary obligation. If the couple bought anything together, legalities may be involved. Texas is a Community Property state–so marriage (Common Law or not) complicates things. The “relationship” in the OP is _a plan to meet_; the woman is already hoping for something long term. I wouldn’t be upset if a man was truly free, no matter the nature of the previous relationship. I _would_ be concerned if he was still going through a divorce. Or the marriage was “over” but they hadn’t seen lawyers yet. Or he’d had several kids by different women… ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/36 "2016-03-14T14:50:04Z")
It would only be a lie if he explicitly said they were married. If he said this with the intent to deceive rather than simplify, then it would be a big red flag, possibly a deal breaker. But based on the facts in the OP, the most this sounds like is a lie by omission. Most people would probably assume a 15 year-old relationship that produced kids involved marriage. I don’t think I know enough about the OP’s friend to say she’s a drama mama. It could be that she’s been burned in the past by someone who has played fast and loose with facts, and is extra wary of being taken in again. It could also be that she wants to find someone who values marriage the same way she does. With this revelation, she’s now questioning whether this guy is that. Who knows what all has been said between them in their conversations? If the OP is truly her friend, she’ll help her work through these emotions. The guy could be a good fit or he could be bad one. My thought is that if this bothers her so much, it’s probably a sign she doesn’t really trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/37 "2016-03-14T15:00:24Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Not exactly. Texas is one of the states with Common Law Marriage. The phrase is not a synonym for “Living Together.” A Common Law couple did not marry officially but they’ve held themselves out as married & must divorce if they want to split. > > This case seems simpler. Married or not, children must be provided for–let’s hope the father is fulfilling more than his monetary obligation. If the couple bought anything together, legalities may be involved. Texas is a Community Property state–so marriage (Common Law or not) complicates things… Yeah, but that is true exclusively in Texas; it’s not true of the general concept of “common law marriage”, which is what I was talking about when I brought up the term. In general terms, breakups for long-term relationships carry different legal consequences depending on specific local laws and on how those local laws view the specific long-term relationship, but “marriage” as shorthand for “long-term relationship with shared children and shared property” is something I do consider valid. My own legal system doesn’t have the concept of “common law marriage” but the breakup for such a situation would still require paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/38 "2016-03-14T16:18:47Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yeah, but that is true exclusively in Texas; it’s not true of the general concept of “common law marriage”, which is what I was talking about when I brought up the term. In general terms, breakups for long-term relationships carry different legal consequences depending on specific local laws and on how those local laws view the specific long-term relationship, but “marriage” as shorthand for “long-term relationship with shared children and shared property” is something I do consider valid. My own legal system doesn’t have the concept of “common law marriage” but the breakup for such a situation would still require paperwork. In common law, which was the same across the United States and any other country with a common law legal system, “common law marriage” didn’t mean “we aren’t really married; we’re just living together.” It _never_ meant that. It meant “we _are_ really married; we just didn’t go through the usual legal processes of achieving that status.” Once you were married—regardless of whether you reached that state through common law marriage or through the usual statutory marriage process—you would have to get legally divorced in order to end that marriage. “Common law marriage” does not and never meant “a pretend marriage you can just walk away from.” Now, most states have abolished common law marriage. It still isn’t a synonym for “just living together,” because all states recognize any marriage recognized by another state. So if you are common law married in one of the few states that still recognize it, you are considered _really_ married in every other state. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/39 "2016-03-14T16:19:47Z")
And those two weren’t “just living together”, were they? A child in common, a house in common, how is that “just living together”? By the definitions of the Catholic Church (a bastion of libertarianism the world over), they could have called each other “husband” and “wife”; back when RCC tribunals had legal weight in “civil society”, if one wanted to break up and the other disagreed, this second one could have called upon the Church to declare that the first party couldn’t just skip obligations with a “don’t wanna do it with you no more”. I guess I’m not understanding something basic in the terms but I don’t see what is it I’m not understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809/40 "2016-03-14T16:36:06Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And those two weren’t “just living together”, were they? A child in common, a house in common, how is that “just living together”? By the definitions of the Catholic Church (a bastion of libertarianism the world over), they could have called each other “husband” and “wife”; back when RCC tribunals had legal weight in “civil society”, if one wanted to break up and the other disagreed, this second one could have called upon the Church to declare that the first party couldn’t just skip obligations with a “don’t wanna do it with you no more”. I guess I’m not understanding something basic in the terms but I don’t see what is it I’m not understanding. What you’re not seeing is that “common law marriage” reflects a change in _legal_ status, the same as a statutory marriage does. And it has very specific legal antecedents. And Roman Catholic Church tribunals have to my knowledge never held legal authority in the major common law countries, such as the United Kingdom and the United States. To have a common law marriage, one of the requirement is that you must hold out to the government and the public and your friends that you are _legally_ married. If you tell your friends and family and each other “We’re not married,” and so far as they are concerned “they are not married,” because you have never told them explicitly or implicitly that you are married, that is, husband and wife in a legally binding union, _then you do not have a common law marriage_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-lie-bother-you-or-be-a-non-issue/748809.md?page=3)