# Would this simple solution work as a death penalty alternative? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874 "2009-09-04T16:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/41 "2009-09-04T23:31:43Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > Supposing we don’t trust the government to kill convicted criminals because they might be innocent. Fine. > > So instead, I propose the government release the convicted criminal with the statement that they will not prosecute anyone for the murder of this person. > > Saves a bundle on incarceration costs, and if the criminal makes it out of the country, they are in permanent exile and therefore someone else’s problem. That’s actually worse than the present system. The falsely accused will simply be murdered, rather than having an appeal to clear one’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/42 "2009-09-04T23:32:04Z")
It would not work. First of all what if the criminal manages to avoid his captors and murder even more people? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/43 "2009-09-04T23:41:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > It would not work. > > First of all what if the criminal manages to avoid his captors and murder even more people? People would learn from this experience and prevent it from happening again. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/44 "2009-09-04T23:42:35Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > People would learn from this experience and prevent it from happening again. It isn’t a 100% guarantee. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/45 "2009-09-04T23:44:31Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > People would learn from this experience and prevent it from happening again. Yep. “Shoot first, ask questions later.” Bodycount rises. You may be putting even more faith in the average citizen than libertarians do. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/46 "2009-09-05T00:01:22Z")
> [@](#): > > People would learn from this experience and prevent it from happening again. And the way they’d prevent it from happening again is to vote out the idiot lawmakers who passed this amendment, get it repealed, and go back to the old system of the government administering justice. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/47 "2009-09-05T00:10:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I think we should just start shipping all our criminals, regardless of crime, to Australia. It would end the death penalty, clear the prisons, there’s historical precedent for it, and they couldn’t possibly mind! Win-win-win-win! The idea that the Georgian-era Brits shipped all their hardened criminals to Australia is completely wrong. The idea behind transportation wasn’t so much to clear the criminals out of Britain as it was to establish the colonies in Australia. The convicts were free labour. They didn’t _want_ to create a colony full of murderers and psychopaths: in Georgian England serious crimes got you hung, not transported. The vast majority of Australian transportees were, in today’s terms, shoplifters. Basically poor people fallen on hard times, not hardened criminals. Transportation was forced colonisation, and the convicts were expected to reform and turn into solid citizens of the new colony, not to suffer and die. Mostly it worked, too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/48 "2009-09-05T04:28:14Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > It’s cheaper than those alternatives. So? The end result is that more people would be killed unjustly. Some people are opposed to state executions on ethical grounds, but a larger portion are opposed to vigilante killings and just about everyone is opposed to killing innocent people. The cost of executions is one argument against the death penalty, but it’s not a primary argument - usually it’s only brought up in response to complains about the cost of keeping murderers in jail for life - and this is still a ridiculous solution to that problem. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/49 "2009-09-05T10:09:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So? The end result is that more people would be killed unjustly. In my system, the justice system still decides guilt and sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/50 "2009-09-05T11:35:33Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > In my system, the justice system still decides guilt and sentencing. Which wouldn’t do the falsely convicted much good. Or those killed by the condemned who have nothing to lose. Or cops killed by people ( innocent or guilty ) who’d rather die fighting than be thrown to a mob. Or cops dragged out of their cars and set on fire by black mobs enraged at seeing black man after black man thrown to lynch mobs. Or people killed in pitched battles at the prison when the friends and family of the condemned show up and open fire on the lynch mob. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/51 "2009-09-05T13:14:01Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > People would learn from this experience and prevent it from happening again. Logically speaking, if we should expect the people to provide accurate and reasonable responses to problems, then we should have already have arrived at the correct procedure for the death penalty. That is to say, if the system in place currently is a mistake, we should expect that it would have already been gotten rid of and replaced with your system, if it is a superior one. That it hasn’t shows that if your logic is correct that your argument isn’t, and if your argument is correct your logic can’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/52 "2009-09-05T13:34:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why not just throw them into the prison general population with the same conditions? If the person’s case is notorious enough to get the death penalty (or the OP’s hypothetical alternative), then one of the reputation-seeking prisoners will take care of it. Bullshit. He might get killed if he’s small, weak or old, but if he’s a strong, healthy murderer - particularly a cop killer - or if he has connections to gangs operating within prisons, he will live like a king. He’ll get all the smuggled alcohol and drugs, food, and “pussy” (raping other men) that he wants; he’ll be in an environment where brute thuggery is RESPECTED and he’ll have a stratified order to fit into (which he will automatically be in the top portion of.) ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/53 "2009-09-05T14:48:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which wouldn’t do the falsely convicted much good. Or those killed by the condemned who have nothing to lose. Or cops killed by people ( innocent or guilty ) who’d rather die fighting than be thrown to a mob. Or cops dragged out of their cars and set on fire by black mobs enraged at seeing black man after black man thrown to lynch mobs. Or people killed in pitched battles at the prison when the friends and family of the condemned show up and open fire on the lynch mob. And so on. Yeah, but other than that, the OP came up with a pretty good system. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/54 "2009-09-05T15:51:16Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **kaylasdad99** > > So would abolishing the death penalty entirely, which is wrong, always and everywhere. > > Your opinion, to which you are entitled. Actually, non-debatable FACT, to which _everyone_ is entitled. You’re welcome.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/55 "2009-09-05T16:03:16Z")
[QUOTE=OP] …I think the free market system would take care of the problem… yada yada yada, etc. [/QUOTE] This guy thinks the “_free market_” will eliminate problems with his citizen-vigilante approach to justice??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Is there _anything_ the Magical Free Market Fairy can’t do??? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/56 "2009-09-05T16:37:02Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > Supposing we don’t trust the government to kill convicted criminals because they might be innocent. Fine. > > So instead, I propose the government release the convicted criminal with the statement that they will not prosecute anyone for the murder of this person. > > Saves a bundle on incarceration costs, and if the criminal makes it out of the country, they are in permanent exile and therefore someone else’s problem. They should announce when they are releasing him and have a huge gate. Then they yell"pull , open the gate and let him go. What fun we would have . ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/57 "2009-09-05T18:30:57Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Bullshit. He might get killed if he’s small, weak or old, but if he’s a strong, healthy murderer - particularly a cop killer - or if he has connections to gangs operating within prisons, he will live like a king. He’ll get all the smuggled alcohol and drugs, food, and “pussy” (raping other men) that he wants; he’ll be in an environment where brute thuggery is RESPECTED and he’ll have a stratified order to fit into (which he will automatically be in the top portion of.) Watched a lot of _Oz_, didja? What you describe could easily apply if the convict is set loose, if his crime has made him a folk hero to some. They’ll give him all the drugs, food and pussy (the real stuff) he can handle, too. Heck, death-row inmates, if they’re famous, get marriage proposals all the time. The OP is assuming (that is, if _we_ can assume this whole thing isn’t a big joke) that all Americans will be of a single mindset regarding the released-condemned, i.e. they’ll only act rationally, kill only the right person, kill him efficiently… it’s an Ayn Rand fantasy in which Americans are rugged pragmatic individualists who are all rugged and pragmatic in the same rational way, so they’ll just naturally all agree as rational men should. The best example of this is the Valley in her _Atlas Shrugged_, in which a refuge full of Type-A personalities got along with virtually no internal conflict. If a convicted murder was loose in the Valley, all the rational people there would unanimously agree on the best way to deal with him, and this is what the OP seems to assume would apply to America generally. Evidence that shatters this fantasy has been and will continue to be ignored or waved away. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/58 "2009-09-05T19:26:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They should announce when they are releasing him and have a huge gate. Then they yell"pull , open the gate and let him go. What fun we would have . Nah; in that scenario we’d need to use a catapult. It’s not proper skeet shooting unless the target is airborne. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/59 "2009-09-05T20:03:18Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > In my system, the justice system still decides guilt and sentencing. Your idea would result in more people being killed unjustly, not fewer. So it’s hard to imagine who you think will be satisfied by your proposal. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874/60 "2009-09-05T20:08:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Your idea would result in more people being killed unjustly, not fewer. So it’s hard to imagine who you think will be satisfied by your proposal. Lynch mobs. The sort of people who want to do the killing themselves, and want to make it as brutal as possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-simple-solution-work-as-a-death-penalty-alternative/508874.md?page=4)