# Would this thread be against the rules? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 23, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631 "2012-09-23T22:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/21 "2012-09-24T19:09:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > :smack: You’re right–I didn’t read carefully. (So does anyone know whether there’s any legal problem with watching, but not technically downloading, a copyrighted video illegally posted on Youtube?) Good question. Is it legal to view, _but not download_, child porn? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/22 "2012-09-24T19:11:51Z")
Surely you’re not suggesting that the situations are relevantly similar, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/23 "2012-09-24T19:18:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Surely you’re not suggesting that the situations are relevantly similar, are you? I am suggesting that both have been uploaded illegally. Have there ever been any successful convictions for the viewing _alone_ of something that was posted illegally on the net? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/24 "2012-09-24T19:19:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I was responding to someone who specifically asked about _downloading_ such a video from YouTube. But your post didn’t really answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/25 "2012-09-24T19:21:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can you think of a good reason why a movie studio would decide to distribute a movie by dividing it into 30 sections and putting it on YouTube for free download? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Good question. Is it legal to view, _but not download_, child porn? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am suggesting that both have been uploaded illegally. Have there ever been any successful convictions for the viewing _alone_ of something that was posted illegally on the net? We’re looking for answers not more questions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/26 "2012-09-24T19:22:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But your post didn’t really answer my question. I _speculate_ that it is just as illegal to download an illegally uploaded movie as it is to download an illegally uploaded song. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/27 "2012-09-24T20:04:24Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Of course. They want as many people to see it as possible. Of course of course. And by breaking their epic movie into 30 pieces on U-toob, each viewer has to watch 30 little movies instead – thereby the studio can claim that the movie has been watched 30 times more! It’s all in the marketing. And the OP can post his 25 last-downloaded flicks and still not even cover one entire movie. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/28 "2012-09-24T20:16:25Z")
And just think of the reviews. “Just wait until you get to part 23. You will laugh and cry and poop your pants. I never pooped 'em harder.” - Jim Doorknob from the Gobblers Knob Gazette ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/29 "2012-09-24T22:46:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > :smack: You’re right–I didn’t read carefully. (So does anyone know whether there’s any legal problem with watching, but not technically downloading, a copyrighted video illegally posted on Youtube?) How do you watch it without technically downloading it? Perhaps you aren’t going to move the contents from your temp files into a different location. Perhaps you’ll use a file format that is streamed in real time so no temp file exists. But you’ve still downloaded it. (I don’t know the answer to the question I think you’re trying to ask..) -D/a ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/30 "2012-09-24T23:21:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I _speculate_ that it is just as illegal to download an illegally uploaded movie as it is to download an illegally uploaded song. Okay, so you’re saying that most of the movies posted on YouTube are posted illegally? I find that questionable. If people are going to post illegal movies, why do we so rarely see current popular movies being posted on YouTube? Nobody’s posting _Spider-Man_ or _Men in Black_ or _Kung Fu Panda_. The movies you see on YouTube are older and more obscure movies. YouTube has a policy of removing anything that receives copyright violation claims. This obviously works in regards to current movies like the ones I just listed. Why wouldn’t it also work in regards to older movies? So when I see a movie available for viewing on YouTube, my assumption is that it was posted there legally. I don’t know why somebody chose to post it, but that’s true for most of the videos on YouTube. Which brings us back to my question. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that it’s legal for me to watch a video on YouTube, is it also legal for me to download that video? I know the equivalent is legal in regards to television - I can legally record a show when it’s being broadcast to watch at a later time. Does this same principle apply to online broadcasts? ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/31 "2012-09-24T23:38:49Z")
Like **Digital is the new Analog** said, you can’t see it unless you download it. Render unto **Cesario** , and all that. I’m not aware of any law that makes it illegal to download protected content. The problem is that the most common means of doing so, bittorrent, also requires you to upload at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/32 "2012-09-25T02:34:43Z")
> [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](#): > > Perhaps you aren’t going to move the contents from your temp files into a different location. Perhaps you’ll use a file format that is streamed in real time so no temp file exists. But you’ve still downloaded it. Interesting–I was thinking that if you streamed a movie, it was something distinct from downloading it. But then, it’s not like an ISP has a download, an upload, and a streaming speed, so I guess that was kind of stupid of me :). Still, though, I wonder if download has multiple meanings, one of which distinguishes between saving a file locally, and streaming a file? ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/33 "2012-09-25T04:24:48Z")
It’s illegal to download videos from YouTube, ANY videos, unless it’s explicitly stated. YouTube’s TOS 5B: Content is provided to you AS IS. You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content. You shall not copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, or otherwise exploit any Content for any other purposes without the prior written consent of YouTube or the respective licensors of the Content. YouTube and its licensors reserve all rights not expressly granted in and to the Service and the Content. I know because video download apps in iOS app store won’t download videos from YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/34 "2012-09-25T11:03:46Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Content is provided to you AS IS. You may access Content for your information and personal use solely as intended through the provided functionality of the Service and as permitted under these Terms of Service. You shall not download any Content unless you see a “download” or similar link displayed by YouTube on the Service for that Content. Yeah, see, that! That’s the use of “download” I’m talking about, and if it’s good enough for Youtube, it’s good enough for me! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/35 "2012-09-25T12:03:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah, see, that! That’s the use of “download” I’m talking about, and if it’s good enough for Youtube, it’s good enough for me! But that’s not going to protect you from any legal ramifications. They are detailing their terms of use, not the legality of pirated movies. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/36 "2012-09-25T12:10:53Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But that’s not going to protect you from any legal ramifications. They are detailing their terms of use, not the legality of pirated movies. I’m only yammering on about the pedants who say I use the word “download” incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/37 "2012-09-25T13:39:38Z")
The actual point is that infringement is not defined by whether you have downloaded something but by whether you have engaged in unauthorized copying, distribution, performance, etc., of a work. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/38 "2012-09-25T15:49:57Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > It’s illegal to download videos from YouTube, ANY videos, unless it’s explicitly stated. It’s a violation of YouTube’s terms of service agreement but does that make it actually illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/39 "2012-09-25T16:45:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s a violation of YouTube’s terms of service agreement but does that make it actually illegal? Just what I was going to say, I don’t think it is illegal, it’s a breach of the TOS. Some videos on youtube are licensed creative commons so it certainly wouldn’t be copyright law you were breaking with them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631/40 "2012-09-25T17:08:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The actual point is that infringement is not defined by whether you have downloaded something but by whether you have engaged in unauthorized copying, distribution, performance, etc., of a work. Again, are you sure of that? Youtube makes a clear distinction between watching something streaming and downloading it. Are you certain that there’s no similar distinction in copyright law? Streaming a video seems more akin to me to eating at a restaurant with a copyright-violating mural: you enjoy someone else’s copyright violation, but you don’t take it home. Downloading it seems more akin to taking photographs of that mural to take home. The former act probably violates no law, whereas the latter might\*. And given the fact that when you stream video, the default is that you don’t keep a copy of what you stream, this seems to me to be an important technical distinction as well. - Edit: is it ridiculous to suggest that photographing a copyright-violating mural would be illegal? I agree. But I think the analogy holds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-this-thread-be-against-the-rules/635631.md?page=3)