# Would "totin' chips" work in schools? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245 "2018-01-22T21:22:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/61 "2018-01-24T12:13:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK. And that’s where the card comes in. Not every Boy Scout is allowed to carry a knife; you have to first prove to a responsible adult that you’re up on the safety. The kids who wouldn’t be safe with a knife wouldn’t get the card, and wouldn’t be allowed to carry. Honestly, this would be a vast improvement over kids getting into an art class or shop class or whatever where they do use dangerous tools, and being exposed to those tools (some of them) for the first time, and not knowing what to do with them. Yes, there’s supervision in a shop class, but the kids still outnumber the teacher 20 to 1, and it’s physically impossible to watch all of them all of the time. The literal job of shop class is to teach you how to use those tools. If you have to show you know how to use them before you take the class, where do you learn how? ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/62 "2018-01-24T13:38:34Z")
Warning “story of my hick upbringing coming” I was in high school in the 90s when spring assist blades were “the thing.” I also have a friend that speared himself in the sack while he was goofing around behind the cafeteria in the unsupervised screw-around-and-smoke-weed place we all hung out. Turns out his knife kinda rolled in his pocket and popped open. It totally ruined our whole scheme junior year to skip the class after lunch. But he kept both of his, uh, fellows. The blood stains on his jeans got him the keen name of “period boy.” Hick upbringing story now over. I don’t know if kids are any smarter than we were at that age, but hey, what’s the worst that could happen. It’s only kids, knife rights are waaaaay more important. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/63 "2018-01-24T15:25:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The school can ban damn near anything it likes that doesn’t run afoul of First Amendment issues. To my recollection, knives aren’t mentioned in the Constitution. Ah, but the First guarantees free speech. And money is speech, my friend. Money can buy knives. Ergo, knives constitute free speech ! Why are you such a pro-censorship Nazi, huh ?! 😃 > [@Clothahump](#): > > Most of the students would probably agree with this. Yes. But then they’ll hear about the “sodomy and the lash” package also included, which are less fun to most. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/64 "2018-01-24T15:49:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Since this is a boy scout thing I assume this means the girls are just shit out of luck? I think the OP’s idea is to take the concept _from_ the boy scouts, and spread it _to_ schoolchildren of all sexes and scouting abilities (or lack thereof), presuming they are trained and proficient in knife safety. It isn’t “only boy scouts should have knives in school”. > [@silenus](#): > > Oh, really? Go reread **DrCube** ’s posts and get back to us on that. A [pocket knife](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OHG4qGUszWw/maxresdefault.jpg) is not a weapon. A dagger, dirk or sword is a weapon. A pocket knife could _possibly_ be used by a trained knife fighter as a dangerous weapon, but in the hands of the unskilled, it’s no more dangerous than pointy scissors, which can also slice and stab. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But I also know that some kids are impulsive and angry. And some kids aren’t coordinated. And some kids, lemme be nice about this, are working hard to develop the common sense that God gave a hard-boiled egg. > > The impulsive and angry kids are the ones we’ve talked about. One of these kids might decide to poke someone with a knife. > > The uncoordinated kids might think they’re exercising knife safety and end up slicing up their thumb, because they didn’t pay attention to its placement. > > The common-sense-working-on-it-kids might decide to see if they can throw their knife in the air and catch it, or might throw it at a wooden structure to see if it sticks (never mind the other kids walking in front of the structure), or might see how deep they can cut their skin before the blood wells, or might suck on the blade because the cool metal feels nice, or might–well, you get the picture. I watched a grown man in the Army staple his scrotum to a wooden stool once on a dare. Come to think of it, I recall a classmate in grade school once tried to staple two of his fingers together, too. And as you mention, students aren’t even safe from dangerous leaves. Yes, kids are ignorant, but so are adults. Kids aren’t some special kind of mental defective who can’t be held responsible for their actions. If a kid does something stupid, that shouldn’t be the teacher’s fault. If we could get rid of the idea that any idiotic choice made by a student is the sole responsibility of the school, there would be nothing to worry about with pocket knives. If we can’t get rid of that idea… well I don’t see why staplers and scissors aren’t just as liable to be misused by the ignorant. If knives were allowed, I suspect we’d see just about as many knife cuts and punctures as we do staplings and scissor cuts today. Yeah, it’s a minor hazard. That’s why we supervise students and train them in the safe use of everyday tools. But I don’t see why it’s any more of a hazard than hundreds of other things schoolchildren interact with on a daily basis. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah, there are kids I would easily trust with a knife. And yeah, if a kid brought a knife to school, like 95% of cases I’d try to get it handled quietly and discreetly with nothing more than a firm word not to bring it back, because I’m not freaked out by them. I appreciate that. The biggest problem I have with these bans is that [innocent kids are getting expelled](http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/04/25/girl-expelled-after-a-pocket-knife-was-found-in-her-locker/) [or worse](http://www.cleveland19.com/story/24945487/teens-military-plans-on-hold-after-spending-13-days-in-jail) for nothing more than forgetting to remove a common, everyday tool from their backpack or car. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/65 "2018-01-24T15:58:23Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The burden of making a compelling case should be on those wishing to ban them. I haven’t seen one yet. Care to try? You were once a teenage boy yourself, weren’t you? You know what they’re like. That’s why. > [@](#): > > And if sharp objects like scissors and pencils aren’t actually a problem, then just what _is_ the problem with knives? In school, you need scissors and pencils. You don’t need knives. > [@](#): > > Knives are useful tools with hundreds of day to day uses. In school? Somehow most of them have managed for many years without them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/66 "2018-01-24T16:07:31Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Right. It’s like they’re making the usual anti-gun-control arguments, but forgetting that a hallmark of the anti-gun-control arguments (_beyond_ just stating “The Second Amendment Says It, I Believe It, That Settles It!”) is the cost-benefit analysis of having a gun in the uncontrolled real world. > > So let’s lay it out: In the uncontrolled real world, a gun is a tool for self-defense. Not necessarily against people, which is a usual NRA argument, but also against coyotes and raccoons and bears and cougars and other wild animals which infest the lifted-truck coal-rolling regions from which I hail. > > Schools are controlled environments. We know this because we pay people to control them, either through taxes or through private school fees or through taxes redirected to private industry in the form of vouchers. > > If a school is uncontrolled, someone isn’t getting their money’s worth, and the solution isn’t to sprinkle knives into the mix, it’s to pay to have the school sufficiently controlled such that adding free-floating knives to it would be pointless. > > If you turn your attention away from the self-defense argument, the same logic applies: In the real world, people have to cut things. You never know when it will come up. > > In schools, forcing students to cut things is a waste of time and, therefore, money. It would be an arbitrary roadblock to allow things which need to be cut to intrude into the school day. > > So I agree: This is a parody of anti-gun-control arguments which makes them look quite silly. Yes, both knives and guns are useful tools, with guns having a much more limited scope of usefulness than knives, all things considered. However, in a controlled environment, you can legitimately say that you’ll never need certain tools, and if a school isn’t controlled, getting it under control is the first priority. ^ I really like this post and think it is a cogent and well thought out response to the OP. Or, as the kids say these days: “Like” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/67 "2018-01-24T16:13:39Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Yes, kids are ignorant, but so are adults. Kids aren’t some special kind of mental defective who can’t be held responsible for their actions. If a kid does something stupid, that shouldn’t be the teacher’s fault. The problem is that kid brains have finished developing yet and they are even LESS capable of being careful and sensible than adults, which, as you point out, also do stupid things even when then should know better. > [@](#): > > I appreciate that. The biggest problem I have with these bans is that [innocent kids are getting expelled](http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/04/25/girl-expelled-after-a-pocket-knife-was-found-in-her-locker/) [or worse](http://www.cleveland19.com/story/24945487/teens-military-plans-on-hold-after-spending-13-days-in-jail) for nothing more than forgetting to remove a common, everyday tool from their backpack or car. Yes. Society is imposing draconian punishments are kids who, because they are not yet done developing, are less capable of following the rules every single time without any exception whatsoever than adults are - and adults not only forget the pocketknife or butterknife in the backpack, the do stuff like _forgetting a baby in the backseat_ with tragic results. We don’t summarily arrest everyone coming to the airport who forgot some banned item or other, 99% of the time the “contraband” is confiscated and the person moves on without it. Humans forget things. We are expecting children to do better than adults, and punishing them more harshly when they fail. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/68 "2018-01-24T16:45:35Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I watched a grown man in the Army staple his scrotum to a wooden stool once on a dare. Come to think of it, I recall a classmate in grade school once tried to staple two of his fingers together, too. And as you mention, students aren’t even safe from dangerous leaves. > > Yes, kids are ignorant, but so are adults. Kids aren’t some special kind of mental defective who can’t be held responsible for their actions. If a kid does something stupid, that shouldn’t be the teacher’s fault. > > If we could get rid of the idea that any idiotic choice made by a student is the sole responsibility of the school, there would be nothing to worry about with pocket knives. If we can’t get rid of that idea… well I don’t see why staplers and scissors aren’t just as liable to be misused by the ignorant. I’m not even talking about teacher’s fault; I’m talking about teacher’s responsibility. A grown man who becomes a barstool cyborg gets to handle that problem himself. A kid who slices open his finger while trying to sharpen a pencil is a kid I’ve got to deal with, and while I’m dealing with him, I’m not teaching the rest of the class how to find the perimeter of a triangle. As I said, we teachers aren’t sitting around thinking, “Damn, this job is boring, I wish something would happen once in awhile.” Things are happening constantly. Another chance for bloodshet ain’t welcome. > [@](#): > > If knives were allowed, I suspect we’d see just about as many knife cuts and punctures as we do staplings and scissor cuts today. Yeah, it’s a minor hazard. That’s why we supervise students and train them in the safe use of everyday tools. But I don’t see why it’s any more of a hazard than hundreds of other things schoolchildren interact with on a daily basis. Even stipulating we’d see the same number, they wouldn’t magically replace scissor injuries. They’d be another source of injuries, increasing the total number. > [@](#): > > I appreciate that. The biggest problem I have with these bans is that [innocent kids are getting expelled](http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/04/25/girl-expelled-after-a-pocket-knife-was-found-in-her-locker/) [or worse](http://www.cleveland19.com/story/24945487/teens-military-plans-on-hold-after-spending-13-days-in-jail) for nothing more than forgetting to remove a common, everyday tool from their backpack or car. That’s a different issue, and I think it’s appalling. But the solution is to back the hell off of zero-tolerance policies, not to welcome pocket knives in kids’ pockets at school. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/69 "2018-01-24T17:13:01Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > A [pocket knife](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OHG4qGUszWw/maxresdefault.jpg) is not a weapon. A dagger, dirk or sword is a weapon. [Student stabbed with pocket knife](http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/for_the_record/ac-cn-annapolis-high-stabbing-1109-story.html) [Man stabbed, killed brother with pocket knife](http://www.wbtv.com/story/26729960/police-man-stabbed-killed-brother-with-pocket-knife-in-waxhaw) [Man charged with fatally stabbing man with pocket knife](https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2017/04/28/man-charged-fatally-stabbing-man-pocket-knife/101018148/) [Fifth grader stabbed with pocket knife](http://www.foxla.com/news/local-news/5th-grader-stabbed-with-pocket-knife-during-fight-at-local-elementary-school) That’s all from the first page of a Google search. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/70 "2018-01-24T17:45:46Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > A [pocket knife](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OHG4qGUszWw/maxresdefault.jpg) is not a weapon. Kudos for finding a pic of the most puny Old Timer in existence. If you like, I have a one inch novelty Coke Bottle knife I could take a pic of. Unfortunately, those aren’t the only knives in the world. So we want kids to have knives, we need to get the school board together to figure out the training criteria and other rules. They also need to debate on which knives are allowed. What style? Locking or non locking? What opening mechanisms are allowed? Thumb assist? Flippers? Automatics? Butterfly knives? What about blade shape? Curved blades? Hooked blades? What about serrated and partially serrated blades? Multitools? Chisel knives? Mini flatbars with sharpened edges? What about box cutters, utility knives and Xacto knives? What about knife maintenance? Do we need to make sure the kids aren’t using knives that will open in their pocket or close on their fingers? I would hazard a guess that a manually opening, non locking, sheepsfoot blade less than 3 inches would be agreed upon as an ok knife. I have a 2.9 inch sailor’s knife that would qualify. It’s one of the sharpest knives I own, it nearly took the end off my finger once. It also has a 3 inch marlinspike which I’d argue is on par with a knife in everyday usefulness. What is the school board’s opinion on marlinspikes? Finally, the most important question I’d ask of the school board: What the hell does this have to do with education? Is this going to help with homework, reading comprehension, get test scores up, prepare students for college? They gonna do better on the SATs because of knives? ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/71 "2018-01-24T18:09:11Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > [Student stabbed with pocket knife](http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/for_the_record/ac-cn-annapolis-high-stabbing-1109-story.html) > [Man stabbed, killed brother with pocket knife](http://www.wbtv.com/story/26729960/police-man-stabbed-killed-brother-with-pocket-knife-in-waxhaw) > [Man charged with fatally stabbing man with pocket knife](https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2017/04/28/man-charged-fatally-stabbing-man-pocket-knife/101018148/) > [Fifth grader stabbed with pocket knife](http://www.foxla.com/news/local-news/5th-grader-stabbed-with-pocket-knife-during-fight-at-local-elementary-school) > > That’s all from the first page of a Google search. Obviously, we need more good kids with knives to stop the bad kids with knives. Would anyone like to invest in my tactical knifefighting school for kids? ---
**Author:** ![apLundell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aplundell/32/14656_2.png) [@apLundell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apLundell)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/72 "2018-01-24T18:20:03Z")
I can sympathize with the needs for restrictions on pocket knives in schools, and I also acknowledge that there’s very little utility in implementing a mechanism to allow them. … But people who see “folding pocket knife” and think “weapon” are not adding rationality to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/73 "2018-01-24T19:33:40Z")
Right, which is why the TSA only allows folding knives on planes. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/74 "2018-01-24T19:44:40Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Right, which is why the TSA only allows folding knives on planes. And the TSA is your standard for rational and effective policy?? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/75 "2018-01-24T19:50:15Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > And the TSA is your standard for rational and effective policy?? 😕 The TS-motherfuckin’-A handles shit. That’s what they do. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/76 "2018-01-24T19:52:35Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > [Student stabbed with pocket knife](http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/for_the_record/ac-cn-annapolis-high-stabbing-1109-story.html) > [Man stabbed, killed brother with pocket knife](http://www.wbtv.com/story/26729960/police-man-stabbed-killed-brother-with-pocket-knife-in-waxhaw) > [Man charged with fatally stabbing man with pocket knife](https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2017/04/28/man-charged-fatally-stabbing-man-pocket-knife/101018148/) > [Fifth grader stabbed with pocket knife](http://www.foxla.com/news/local-news/5th-grader-stabbed-with-pocket-knife-during-fight-at-local-elementary-school) > > That’s all from the first page of a Google search. [Hearing of boy, 7, affected after pencil-stab incident](http://www.thestandard.com.hk/section-news.php?id=189808) [Moore elementary student allegedly stabbed in eye with pencil by another student](http://kfor.com/2017/12/13/moore-elementary-student-allegedly-stabbed-in-eye-with-pencil-by-another-student/) [Boy, 12, stabbed in neck with pencil](http://wwmt.com/news/local/boy-12-stabbed-in-neck-with-pencil) [11-year-old arrested after pencil stabbing at Colorado Springs school](http://kdvr.com/2016/11/02/11-year-old-arrested-after-pencil-stabbing-at-colorado-springs-school/) This is all from the first page of a DDG search. By your logic, surely you agree that pencils should now be classified as weapons and banned from schools to ensure a safe learning environment? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/77 "2018-01-24T20:04:41Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > And the TSA is your standard for rational and effective policy?? 😕 No, and we’re all the poorer for it. Want to whittle a neck pillow on that transatlantic flight? You’re out of luck. Last time I flew, I had to puncture the foil on my water cup with my thumb. My _thumb_. Like a goddamned caveman. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/78 "2018-01-24T20:09:42Z")
> [@apLundell](#): > > I can sympathize with the needs for restrictions on pocket knives in schools, and I also acknowledge that there’s very little utility in implementing a mechanism to allow them. > > … But people who see “folding pocket knife” and think “weapon” are not adding rationality to the discussion. I don’t disagree, but a lot of that is in response to people saying they’re just tools, not weapons. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/79 "2018-01-24T20:50:39Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > [Hearing of boy, 7, affected after pencil-stab incident](http://www.thestandard.com.hk/section-news.php?id=189808) > [Moore elementary student allegedly stabbed in eye with pencil by another student](http://kfor.com/2017/12/13/moore-elementary-student-allegedly-stabbed-in-eye-with-pencil-by-another-student/) > [Boy, 12, stabbed in neck with pencil](http://wwmt.com/news/local/boy-12-stabbed-in-neck-with-pencil) > [11-year-old arrested after pencil stabbing at Colorado Springs school](http://kdvr.com/2016/11/02/11-year-old-arrested-after-pencil-stabbing-at-colorado-springs-school/) > > This is all from the first page of a DDG search. > > By your logic, surely you agree that pencils should now be classified as weapons and banned from schools to ensure a safe learning environment? So, we’re in agreement that both knives and pencils can be used as weapons. But a pencil has a use in school, while a knife does not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245/80 "2018-01-24T20:51:07Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > By your logic, surely you agree that pencils should now be classified as weapons and banned from schools to ensure a safe learning environment? No, that’s not by his logic, good grief. PENCILS: Huge benefits in the school, definite hazards, currently thoroughly integrated into school culture, so teachers all have systems in place for handling them. POCKET KNIVES: Some marginal benefits in school, definite hazards, currently not integrated much at all into school culture, so teachers don’t generally have systems in place for handling them. I am currently sitting within 20’ of hundreds of pencils. I have a pencil injury every three or four years, never a severe one. I absolutely don’t believe that if pocket knives came to school and were carried and used independently by 8 year olds that the rate of injury would be comparable. The fact that you can find injury reports for an article that gets used by almost every student many times a day in no way is comparable to injury reports for an article that very rarely comes to school. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-totin-chips-work-in-schools/807245.md?page=5)