# Would U.S. Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and President Reagan receive honorary knighthoods from Queen Elizabeth II for their assistance during the Falkland war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 31, 2021, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558 "2021-10-31T05:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cannonkuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@cannonkuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cannonkuo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/1 "2021-10-31T05:32:32Z")
Weeks after falling in line behind Britain during the Falkland war, a rumor surfaced that U.S. Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and President Reagan would receive honorary knighthoods from Queen Elizabeth II. This, while American critics of the U.S. role claimed that by failing to side with Argentina, the United States had violated its own Monroe Doctrine.( [https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/08/08/editorial1.html](https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2005/08/08/editorial1.html) ) Was the receiving of honorary knighthoods really a rumor? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/2 "2021-10-31T07:46:34Z")
No. As Wikipedia would tell you: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_honorary\_British\_knights\_and\_dames](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_honorary_British_knights_and_dames) ---
**Author:** ![cannonkuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@cannonkuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cannonkuo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/3 "2021-10-31T10:15:37Z")
Thank you. I used your link and found both Weinberger and former President Ronald had been granted honorary knighthoods. However, I don’t know the reason for the special honor. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/4 "2021-10-31T16:00:13Z")
I"m not sure if google is broken for you, but here is a [link to an article](https://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/15/world/accolade-for-reagan-honorary-knighthood.html) from the NY Times of the day. This is just one of many places that covered this in some detail. > Mr. Reagan is the 58th American to receive an honorary knighthood. It is the highest honor Britain bestows on Americans, but only Commonwealth citizens use the title Sir. As an honorary holder of the title, Mr. Reagan may use the initials G. C. B. after his name. > > Harold Brooks-Baker, publishing director of Burke’s Peerage, said Monday that Mr. Reagan was offered a knighthood ‘‘because of his special contribution to the British Government under Mrs. Thatcher.’’ ‘‘He helped Mrs. Thatcher in the Falklands War and in many different ways,’’ he said. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/5 "2021-10-31T16:23:34Z")
The OP mentioned the Monroe Doctrine. It didn’t apply to the Falklands. The Monroe Doctrine was declared in 1823 and it said the United States would oppose any efforts by a European power to take control of any independent state in the Americas. Any established European colonies in the Americas were exempted. English control of the Falklands is, of course, a disputed issue. But the British first claimed the territory in 1766. ---
**Author:** ![smilingbandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@smilingbandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingbandit)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/6 "2021-10-31T16:39:05Z")
There may also be some question over whether or not they even count as part of the “The Americas” as James Monroe would have considered the question. First, the Falklands are a fair distance out into the South Atlantic. Second, and much more significantly, is the non-trivial fact that the MD was largely aimed at preventing Spain and France from gaining additional footholds in the New World. This is not, in the abstract hypothetical, “fair”. But international policy is rarely fair according to some neutral arbiter. America had decided it could live with Canada and more or less made a final peace with Great Britain following the (pointless, wasteful, and ultimately irrelevant) War of 1812. Despite some ongoing back and forth the US and GB functionally cooperated on the point of preventing other European powers from acquiring new colonial empires thereafter. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/7 "2021-10-31T18:15:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The OP mentioned the Monroe Doctrine. Which BTW I believe has already been discussed about in one or more of ten other threads OP has started trying to discuss one or another aspect of US-UK-Argentine relations and/or the geopolitics of the Falklands conflict. > [@smilingbandit](#): > > Second, and much more significantly, is the non-trivial fact that the MD was largely aimed at preventing Spain and France from gaining additional footholds in the New World. Or rather, from attempting at re-taking the territories that already had become independent or were in the process of becoming so at the time. In practice the USA pretty much took unto itself the mantle of being the hegemon over _those_ countries. But the ones that were _still_ in the sphere of influence of the colonial powers were allowed to carry on as they were. ---
**Author:** ![cannonkuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@cannonkuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cannonkuo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/8 "2021-11-01T00:00:14Z")
Thank you. I found why Weinberger and Reagan were awarded honorary knighthoods not only in the N.Y. Times, but the L. A. Times as well. I just forgot to retract my last post. Google is working fine with me. ---
**Author:** ![cannonkuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@cannonkuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cannonkuo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/9 "2021-11-01T00:10:08Z")
The British returned in 1771 but withdrew from the islands in 1774, leaving behind a flag and a plaque representing their claim to ownership, and leaving Spain in [de facto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto) control. My question is: can the British still claim sovereignty over the islands since the British left the islands in 1774? Any expressed international laws have the authority to decide? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![cannonkuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@cannonkuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cannonkuo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/10 "2021-11-01T00:14:21Z")
I don’t know if there are any discussions on whether the Falklands are part of Americas. Please show me if there are articles talking about it. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![cannonkuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@cannonkuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cannonkuo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/11 "2021-11-01T00:23:55Z")
Some realities did exist and only powerful international potencies can decide… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/12 "2021-11-01T00:25:04Z")
The Falklands are going to be British Overseas Territory with self governance for a very, very long time to come. It’s possible that this would have been different had the Argentinian Jorge Anaya not miscalculated so very, very badly in 1982. Without the botched invasion, Britain may have eventually been persuaded through diplomacy to weaken their claim on the Falklands. Now though? The Falklands will stay British for generations. Anaya seemed to have figured that a mere _woman_ leader would be weak, and that Argentina could take over the islands easily. He did not know Margaret Thatcher. He seemed also to have not understood the strong relationship between Britain and the USA, via Reagan. Argentina completely, thoroughly screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![cannonkuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@cannonkuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cannonkuo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/13 "2021-11-01T00:34:58Z")
> [@cannonkuo](#): > > whether the Falklands are part of Americas I totally agree with you on the gradual transfer of the islands to the Argentines. Personally, I perceive both Argentina and the UK had domestic pressures, to divert the attention from economic woes in Argentina and to boost the morale of Tory in the UK. They had to fight. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/14 "2021-11-01T02:48:02Z")
> [@cannonkuo](#): > > The British returned in 1771 but withdrew from the islands in 1774, leaving behind a flag and a plaque representing their claim to ownership, and leaving Spain in [de facto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto) control. > > My question is: can the British still claim sovereignty over the islands since the British left the islands in 1774? Any expressed international laws have the authority to decide? > Thank you. As I noted the chain of control is murky and the arguments continue into the modern day. One thing that’s pretty much taken as a fact is that the United Kingdom took control of the Falklands in 1832 and have been there ever since. There was a debate in the United States at the time about whether this should be challenged as a new claim in the Americas or should be accepted as the continuation of an existing claim that pre-dated the 1823 declaration of the Monroe Doctrine. While that may have been a valid question in 1832, I don’t see how anyone in the United States could raise it in 1982. At that point, the United Kingdom had been governing the Falklands for a hundred and fifty years. So the exemption against the application of the Monroe Doctrine to established European colonies applied. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/15 "2021-11-01T14:58:48Z")
Isn’t “honorary knighthood” redundant these days? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/16 "2021-11-01T15:28:15Z")
In the sense of the Queen can’t call up the knights and retainers for a term of military service, yeah. But I think in this situation, “honorary knighthood” is related to this article of the Constitution: > Article I, Section 9, Clause 8: > > No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State. So by making it “honorary” and not a real title of knighthood, it works for both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/17 "2021-11-01T15:34:53Z")
It’s not US-specific. Any membership in any of the orders of chivalry is honorary if the recipient isn’t a citizen of one of the Queen’s realms. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/18 "2021-11-01T15:40:28Z")
You could look at it in this manner: the person is invested with an Order of Honor that _for subjects of the crown_, carries with it the conferring of knighthood. But for people _not_ subjects of the crown, it limits itself to the fancy scroll, bling and sash. Because it is just not done, for the British Crown to dub someone a knight, who owes their fealty to a different crown or republic. Even if these days the Queen is not going to be calling you to saddle up and ride to her banners with your squires and men at arms. Meanwhile, the French Republic can slap on you a Legion d’Honneur w/o any dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/19 "2021-11-01T15:48:22Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Because it is just not done, for the British Crown to dub someone a knight, who owes their fealty to a different crown or republic. What about all the other monarchs who are Stranger Knights or Ladies of the Garter? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558/20 "2021-11-01T15:49:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What about all the other monarchs who are Stranger Knights or Ladies of the Garter? That’s why they’re Stranger Knights and Ladies and not ordinary Knights and Ladies. I can’t find the statutes of the Order of the Bath, but presumably they’re similar to the statutes of the [Royal Victorian Order](https://books.google.com/books?id=0baizU0hFpIC&lpg=PA117&ots=2aK0TV9JUq&pg=PA117#v=onepage&q&f=false): > It is ordained that the persons to be admitted as Ordinary members of the several Classes of this Order shall be such persons, being male or female subjects of Our Crown, as may have rendered, or shall hereafter render, extraordinary or important services to Us, Our heirs and successors; or who have merited, or may hereafter merit, Our Royal favour. > > It is ordained that the Honorary members of the several Classes of this Order shall consist of Foreign Princes or Princesses and foreign persons, male or female, or Presidents, Heads of State or citizens of Republics within the Commonwealth upon whom We, Our heirs and successors may think fit to confer the Honour of being received into the Order. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-u-s-secretary-of-defense-caspar-weinberger-and-president-reagan-receive-honorary-knighthoods-from-queen-elizabeth-ii-for-their-assistance-during-the-falkland-war/953558.md?page=2)