# Would universal healthcare be more expensive or less than the current US system? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175 "2009-02-24T08:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/161 "2009-03-04T06:56:40Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > I have an education. I provide jobs for 4 people. Last year I earned roughly $250K. No, I do not provide health care for these people as I would also have to provide it for myself which as I said costs $3K/mo each due to my condition. Perhaps where you live, most employers provide insurance. In my state, they do not. In your state? > [@](#): > > Why do I have to pay for the police and fire departments to protect you? Why do I have to pay for the military to protect you? None of these protect me. You don’t - I’ve never used them. As for why someone who lives overseas has to pay taxes to the US, I have no idea. Besides, there is no option to get police or fire coverage anywhere other than thru the government, unlike health care so the comparison doesn’t work. > [@](#): > > I make way more than enough to afford a normal individual plan, but nobody will sell one to me… thus the reason I left the USA seven years ago. I still have a bunch of stuff in storage on the chance that I’ll be able to move back one day. You have the option to work in an industry that would provide you with group coverage. I fail to see why I should pay even more taxes so that you can continue to do whatever it is that you do for a living, here in the US. Life is not fair and I will always resist yours or anyone else’s attempts to make it fair by requiring that I pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/162 "2009-03-04T07:03:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Okay, before considering those costs, let’s first think about the kinds of forces the market brings, and what will happen if we eliminate them: > > \ > > There’s your alternative plan. This is the kind of thing I started this thread for! Thanks for the detail, **Sam Stone**. Now, I’m definitely no expert on these things, but your idea seems reasonable at first glance. How exactly would these lots of insurance policies be auctioned, though? And what would happen to Medicaid and VA? Furthermore, why aren’t detailed plans like these taken seriously by the pro-market guys? I’ve definitely never heard anything like it on CPAC coverage, although it wouldn’t surprise me if similarly detailed health care reform ideas have been submitted before. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/163 "2009-03-04T07:05:40Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > In your state? > > You don’t - I’ve never used them. As for why someone who lives overseas has to pay taxes to the US, I have no idea. Besides, there is no option to get police or fire coverage anywhere other than thru the government, unlike health care so the comparison doesn’t work. > > You have the option to work in an industry that would provide you with group coverage. I fail to see why I should pay even more taxes so that you can continue to do whatever it is that you do for a living, here in the US. > > Life is not fair and I will always resist yours or anyone else’s attempts to make it fair by requiring that I pay for it. Look, I appreciate your position, but this thread isn’t really about beliefs. It’s about what’s economically efficient/feasible. See my earlier post for what I mean in more detail. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/164 "2009-03-04T07:08:25Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > You’re narrowing the argument too much. Illness and injury strike at _any_ phase of a person or family’s life. College is one instance (and you’ll admit that there are probably more than a handful of people who wouldn’t have adequate support, even as young as they are), but there are many times in any person’s life when such a malady would be of particularly bad timing. For example, immediately after being fired, immediately after moving markets, immediately after another family member got sick, after grad school, after having a baby, during an economic downturn, etc. The examples are as limitless as the varied lives of Americans. Shrug - you are the one that narrowed it by asking what would have happened had my husband been in an accident or hit with a serious illness while in college. I’m sure there are plenty of people out there like me, who would have been in dire straits had I not been able to take care of myself from a young age, but why is it that you want me to pay to keep these folks comfortable when apparently their parents don’t care to? As for all of those bad timing things, why are these people doing these things without any sort of safety net? Well, other than the being fired thing, but how many of them were caught with a pile of debt and no savings? Living beyond ones means may be a common thing these days, but it isn’t an excuse to expect me to take care of all these folks. > [@](#): > > For the purposes of this thread and only one factor of the whole shebang, there are arguably enough people who fall into the above category to make the system significantly less efficient and more costly to America as a whole. Especially when talking about catastrophic illness and injury. Only because you all keep adding more taxes for us to pay to keep them comfy, rather than expecting them to be responsible for themselves. > [@](#): > > Simply arguing that anecdotally you know of plenty of people who have jobs and have managed to provide themselves a basic level of care _does not_ address the problem at hand, nor does it acknowledge the **fact** that the above cases exist and are a strain on the economy; and, on further thought, nor does it attempt to justify the exorbitant cost of health care in America. I haven’t provided any anecdotes actually. If you can prove to me that there are millions of people out there who are going to be forced into poverty due to lack of healthcare and _they were living responsibly otherwise_ and that in total opt-in UHC in the US would lower the cost of health care here in any significant manner, great. Otherwise, I’ll keep noting the numbers of people that feel they somehow “deserve it all” without having earned it in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/165 "2009-03-04T07:09:29Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > In your state? The state where I used to live and continue to vote (Nevada). > [@curlcoat](#): > > You don’t - I’ve never used them. As for why someone who lives overseas has to pay taxes to the US, I have no idea. It’s to enjoy the privilege of American citizenship so I am told. :rolleyes: > [@curlcoat](#): > > Besides, there is no option to get police or fire coverage anywhere other than thru the government, unlike health care so the comparison doesn’t work. There are private security firms. If people want protection, they should pay for it themselves… just like health care. You can buy yourself a gun. Why should others pay so you can have cops show up 24/7? Why is this any different than health care? > [@curlcoat](#): > > You have the option to work in an industry that would provide you with group coverage. I fail to see why I should pay even more taxes so that you can continue to do whatever it is that you do for a living, here in the US. > > Life is not fair and I will always resist yours or anyone else’s attempts to make it fair by requiring that I pay for it. Finding such a job it not as easy as you make it out to be, but eventually I could probably do so with a huge pay cut and laying off my employees… hardly a good thing for the American economy in general tho. So when can I stop paying for the US military to protect you? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/166 "2009-03-04T07:12:20Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > Look, I appreciate your position, but this thread isn’t really about beliefs. It’s about what’s economically efficient/feasible. See my earlier post for what I mean in more detail. I have no idea what you are talking about since I am not posting any beliefs. If you want to merely talk economics, then all you have to do is prove that the US government can run anything at all more efficiently than the private sector does and/or that they can provide a better product for the same amount of money. Since an opt-in UHC requires that I pay for all those uninsured folks who are not currently on Medicaid, I can’t see how it would be cheaper for me or anyone else who is insured now. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/167 "2009-03-04T07:13:45Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > If you can prove to me that there are millions of people out there who are going to be forced into poverty due to lack of healthcare and _ **they were living responsibly otherwise** _ and that in total opt-in UHC in the US would lower the cost of health care here in any significant manner, great. Otherwise, I’ll keep noting the numbers of people that feel they somehow “deserve it all” without having earned it in any way. I have bolded the part that I believe is the real crux of your argument. Your position is irrational because that core point (that people should all be living responsibly) is _absolutely irrelevant_ to this discussion. We are not dealing in ideals and wishful thinking. We are attempting to deal with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/168 "2009-03-04T07:18:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I have no idea what you are talking about since I am not posting any beliefs. If you want to merely talk economics, then all you have to do is prove that the US government can run anything at all more efficiently than the private sector does and/or that they can provide a better product for the same amount of money. Since an opt-in UHC requires that I pay for all those uninsured folks who are not currently on Medicaid, I can’t see how it would be cheaper for me or anyone else who is insured now. Let’s see: > [@curlcoat](#): > > You have the option to work in an industry that would provide you with group coverage. I fail to see why I should pay even more taxes so that you can continue to do whatever it is that you do for a living, here in the US. > > **Life is not fair and I will always resist yours or anyone else’s attempts to make it fair by requiring that I pay for it.** And that’s just in the last few posts. If you’ve been reading this thread and actually reading any of the data upthread, you’ll see that the US spends a disproportionate amount of wealth on administrative costs in health care alone. There have been numerous calls for evidence that a national health plan would be more expensive than the one we already have, but no one has been able to supply said evidence. **Sam Stone** even acknowledges our current system’s inefficiencies and proposed a different market-based plan. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/169 "2009-03-04T13:37:04Z")
I had written an extremely long point by point response to **Curlcoat** but it’s obviously pointless. Another “I don’t owe you anything” libertarian who doesn’t understand the benefits of living in a cooperative society. All this talk about “proving” that UHC works (which is to say, it seems “won’t upset my personal apple cart”) misses the point, and asks for evidence that’s been given time and time again. And if the overseas examples don’t hold enough water: Massachusetts. It’s tiresome, honestly, to have to continue to argue the idea that people need to be able to have healthcare without going bankrupt or racking up countless debt. I don’t know how to make this clear to people who don’t see it, who don’t understand that seeing a doctor when you’re ill (let alone to help you prevent illness) is as crucial to life as food when you’re hungry. I really wish someone could explain that to me. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/170 "2009-03-05T04:39:53Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > For Czechs, this would all be free. Prices are similar in Thailand which has similar care and nicer, more modern facilities (but I don’t own an apartment in Thailand!) Actually, prices in Thailand have been getting out of hand, and we’re no longer the bargain we once were. Although still cheaper than the West, more and more people are bypassing Thailand for India these days for their medical needs. Rates here have really skyrocketed just in the past four or five years. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/171 "2009-03-05T04:41:38Z")
Any idea what the reasoning behind that is? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/172 "2009-03-05T04:47:35Z")
Reasoning for what, costs going up? Not sure. But they really have jumped. Possibly it’s the old case of spiking prices once a large demand is seen. For instance, last year a private hospital, BNH, quoted me 400,000 baht for my shoulder surgery. That’s about US$11,000! Insurance would cover only a very small part of that. I went to a government university hospital instead and paid only about $1500, all paid by insurance. And get this: It was THE SAME SURGEON. He worked both places. But the government university hospital is not geared toward tourists; looks Third World-ish and good luck finding anyone who can speak English. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/173 "2009-03-05T06:27:30Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > I have bolded the part that I believe is the real crux of your argument. > > Your position is irrational because that core point (that people should all be living responsibly) is _absolutely irrelevant_ to this discussion. We are not dealing in ideals and wishful thinking. We are attempting to deal with reality. So, in your opinion, living responsibly is wishful thinking and cannot be done in the real world? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/174 "2009-03-05T06:33:11Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > Let’s see: > And that’s just in the last few posts. If you’ve been reading this thread and actually reading any of the data upthread, you’ll see that the US spends a disproportionate amount of wealth on administrative costs in health care alone. There have been numerous calls for evidence that a national health plan would be more expensive than the one we already have, but no one has been able to supply said evidence. None of this comes even close to addressing what I said. If you can prove that the US government can run anything at all in a more efficient cost effective way than any private company, I might reconsider whether or not it could do a better job with healthcare than what we already have. For instance - what makes you think that adminsitrative costs would be any less if the government is doing it?? Seems they have proven many times that they are quite equal to the task of wasting money. > [@](#): > > **Sam Stone** even acknowledges our current system’s inefficiencies and proposed a different market-based plan. That’s nice. As long as it doesn’t make me pay more taxes, particularly for less value, I’m fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/175 "2009-03-05T06:47:00Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > None of this comes even close to addressing what I said. If you can prove that the US government can run anything at all in a more efficient cost effective way than any private company, I might reconsider whether or not it could do a better job with healthcare than what we already have. For instance - what makes you think that adminsitrative costs would be any less if the government is doing it?? Seems they have proven many times that they are quite equal to the task of wasting money. > > That’s nice. As long as it doesn’t make me pay more taxes, particularly for less value, I’m fine with it. You don’t want to pay for my health care, so why should I have to pay for your military? I think the Post Office runs well and doubt that any private company could get letters from Maine to Hawaii for 42 cents while serving every single address in the country. If it were private, very rural communities would have no service. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/176 "2009-03-05T07:04:07Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > I had written an extremely long point by point response to **Curlcoat** but it’s obviously pointless. Another “I don’t owe you anything” libertarian who doesn’t understand the benefits of living in a cooperative society. You say that like there is something wrong with that. Can you possibly take a bit of your precious time to explain to me why it is that I am expected to support people I don’t know, have nothing to do with and for all I know are worthless human beings? Can you also explain that if we all just redistribute our assets evenly, what the incentive would be to try to suceed at anything? As for libertarian, no. I am not any political label at all - I don’t even vote. > [@](#): > > All this talk about “proving” that UHC works (which is to say, it seems “won’t upset my personal apple cart”) misses the point, and asks for evidence that’s been given time and time again. And if the overseas examples don’t hold enough water: Massachusetts. Massachusetts just started, hardly enough time to see if it will work. If it does, you should petition to try it in your state next. > [@](#): > > It’s tiresome, honestly, to have to continue to argue the idea that people need to be able to have healthcare without going bankrupt or racking up countless debt. I don’t know how to make this clear to people who don’t see it, who don’t understand that seeing a doctor when you’re ill (let alone to help you prevent illness) is as crucial to life as food when you’re hungry. I really wish someone could explain that to me. I will try but I know you won’t listen, because it gets just as tiresome to try to explain these things to bleeding hearts. Try this example, that I have used elsewhere. The people across the street from us retired and sold their house about five-six years ago, to a couple who are in their late twenties. They had two young children at the time and another one within a year. I of course don’t know the details of their mortgage, but apparently they had a balloon payment or whatever it is that makes the monthly payment go way up, and at that time they moved another young couple with their two children into the house so they could afford the mortgage. The wife of the original couple either doesn’t work or is working part time, as she is there taking care of the kids that are under school age. So, now we have four adults and five children living in a three bedroom house (which, unfortunately, is legal in this city). A house that was sold to the first couple for about $550,000. This house has a full size inground pool and is in a highly desirable community. One of the men drives a two year old Hummer, the other drives a pretty new SUV, the working wife drives another pretty new SUV and stay at home drives an older SUV. Now, what happens if one of the working adults in this situation becomes seriously ill? I don’t even know if they all or even any of them have insurance, but lets say they do because even if they do, deductibles and co pays add up really fast in a serious illness. With a high mortgage, on a home they didn’t need to buy, and car payments on expensive gas-expensive vehicles they didn’t need, as well as the five children they have between them, that they seemed to be in a rush to have - how long until they are in serious financial trouble if _anything_ happens? Explain to me why you want me to be responsible (actually even more responsible) thru my tax dollars for these nine people? See, all you look at is the bare fact that some people go bankrupt because of healthcare costs, and not what led up to it. I am tired of being forced to pay for people that just blither thru life without a plan, doing and buying whatever they want because they have been told they “deserve it all, and right now”. All it is going to take across the street is one little misfortune and those folks are going to be in a world of hurt due to the decisions they made in the years prior. It has nothing to do with living in a cooperative society. I gave blood this week, I am trying to qualify to donate a kidney to a friend, we put up a co-worker for a year for free because he’d been tossed from his home thru (almost) no fault of his own, we’ve donated our time to various things, etc etc. But we all have to draw the line someplace, and mine is at being forced to pay more and more in order to support irresponsible, entitlement minded people. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/177 "2009-03-05T07:15:42Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > You don’t want to pay for my health care, so why should I have to pay for your military? Because there is only one military - if you want one, you have to pay for the same one that covers me. Not that I am all that concerned with the military since I think it spends way too much money for benefit received. Which reminds me, I think I missed one of your posts…ah yes! > [@](#): > > There are private security firms. If people want protection, they should pay for it themselves… just like health care. You can buy yourself a gun. Why should others pay so you can have cops show up 24/7? Why is this any different than health care? Private security firms do not have the powers that the police have. OTOH, we have a home security system and I do carry a gun when I travel. So, if something happens, I’ll hold the bad guys at bay until the police come and cart them away! > [@](#): > > Finding such a job it not as easy as you make it out to be, but eventually I could probably do so with a huge pay cut and laying off my employees… hardly a good thing for the American economy in general tho. You are not a common example, so you want to spend billions of dollars to put an experiment into place to cover the rare person that is essentially uninsurable, simply because you would rather be living in Nevada? > [@](#): > > I think the Post Office runs well and doubt that any private company could get letters from Maine to Hawaii for 42 cents while serving every single address in the country. If it were private, very rural communities would have no service. Yet, you have no proof of that. Plus, back when I lived in those private, very rural communities, we _didn’t_ have mail service - we all had to buy a box at the post office. I am rather sure that there is still General Delivery. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/178 "2009-03-05T08:06:12Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Because there is only one military - if you want one, you have to pay for the same one that covers me. Not that I am all that concerned with the military since I think it spends way too much money for benefit received. What if I don’t want a military? In recent times they seem to only bring misery and despair to the world at a very high cost. I am not asking for free health care. I’d like to be able to _pay_ for the same one that our government employees get as part of their benefit package… but that is not an option. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/179 "2009-03-05T08:09:38Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Private security firms do not have the powers that the police have. OTOH, we have a home security system and I do carry a gun when I travel. So, if something happens, I’ll hold the bad guys at bay until the police come and cart them away! So why should others pay for a fire department for you?.. go buy yourself a garden hose. If you need the fire department, get out your credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175/180 "2009-03-05T08:12:27Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You are not a common example, so you want to spend billions of dollars to put an experiment into place to cover the rare person that is essentially uninsurable, simply because you would rather be living in Nevada? Nope. I am asking to be allowed to pay for myself, the same health plan that Obama, Reid and all other government employees get. Your tax dollars are paying for Harry Reid’s insurance, so what is wrong with me being able to pay for that same coverage myself? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-universal-healthcare-be-more-expensive-or-less-than-the-current-us-system/487175.md?page=10)