I know it because small companies can’t afford to offer insurance to people with my condition. I have seen it in my own proposals for group insurance and in one of the companies I used to work for when they were looking into providing insurance before deciding it cost too much.
12 month waiting period and companies with over 50 people can have their group coverage declined. Only groups of 2-50 get guaranteed issue, but the cost can be almost anything… and having me in the group make it unaffordable to most.
I did need expensive care as an infant (several surgeries) unrelated to my condition. My parents coverage automatically dropped me at 18… and I was in college (I wasn’t able to get insurance in college either). I lived at home until I was 24, moved 2 miles away for 5 years, then moved 6,800 miles away.
You are not middle class with that income and neither am I with mine.
I see you conveniently skipped over my experience with my mother’s disability. I have also worked with blind people, deaf people, paralyzed people… and one of the things I’ve learned is that what disabled people have to deal with not only varies from disability to disability but also differs among people with the same disability.
And, while you claim to be disabled you don’t name the disability. Of course, you don’t have to, but it’s nothing to be ashamed of and others in this thread have been quite open about what they suffer from. All I know is that you say you can’t work and that you can’t live in Indiana because of the climate. OK, fine, but that’s all rather vague.
Pretty much the same as any other - there’s this dreadful misunderstanding that Blue Cross Blue Shield is one monolithic company. It’s not. It’s a confederation of related companies, each of which is independent. Some of them are quite small. Others are huge.
What is “experience” other than “life experience”? And what don’t you believe? Anyone can spend a few minutes with a search engine to either confirm or deny what I claimed, they don’t have to take my word for it - or yours.
At present, the Blue Cross system is not one company it is 39 companies. Adding in Kaiser than means only 2 major failures out of 41 companies, and of those two only one required a government bailout. Well, that’s not perfect, but it’s hardly a disaster or an indication that non-profits inevitably fail.
I flat out don’t believe you ever worked for Blue Cross because if you did you’d know it’s not one company but many - that’s covered in employee orientation the first day.
I’m smart. I also asked questions when I worked at Blue Cross because it was a topic that affected several people I know personally. Small companies can’t afford an employee with gargantuan medical bills, it raises the premium beyond affordability.
I don’t know the laws on pre-existing conditions for California. I only know them for Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and Tennessee.
Yes, he did although he pointed out it was unrelated to his inherited condition.
As most health insurance policies these days end coverage for adult child - that is, those 18 and over - it is a reasonable assumption to make.
Not every policy covers children in college.
Irrelevant if his coverage ends at 18 regardless.
No, not to cover those two - to cover fifty million people. Actually, since my husband HAS insurance right technically he wouldn’t be included in that 50,000,000.
Yes.
I’m not demanding it FOR ME - that’s what completely escapes you, that someone can advocate something that isn’t based in self-interest. Me and my husband have health insurance right now. The “extra” money isn’t for MY family - it’s for all those people who aren’t covered right now. I would gain nothing from it that I don’t already have.
Why do you pay for taxes that pay for police and fire protection? Why do you pay taxes to the government for social security? Why do you pay taxes for road repair and street lights and all those other things the government provides that you use every day?
I don’t even exempt myself from the requirement - when I get back to making the income I was before I was laid off I, too, would have to pay higher taxes to support a UHC. Unlike you, though, I am willing to make that sacrifice to see everyone enjoy access to healthcare.
You are not middle class. I don’t know why you persist in that delusion. You’re not, by your own description of your family income you are not.
Nope - because you are a member of society and this nation and whether you like it or not you are obligated to contribute to the common good and not just your own selfish wants and desires.
You are aware that there is quite a bit of gap between that and IBM? Also, if a small company is already offering all of their employees insurance, that insurance company cannot deny you.
Where are you getting that? You are going to have to cite your source for that because it is completely wrong, unless the laws changed since 9/07.
Oh sure, everyone has to prove themselves to you. I don’t care either way if you believe I’m disabled or not since it has zero to do with the subject at hand. I don’t get into it because you would try to “prove” that I can’t be disabled, no matter what the state of California thinks, and the state of Washington before that. And soon, hopefully the fed, tho with this economy I rather doubt it - they would rather give my money to Octomom.
What does that have to do with what I said, or anything at all?
Oh brother - you believe everything you read on the internet?
Where did I say that Blue Cross in one company? Besides, I worked for them as a temp, so I didn’t get employee orientation.
Apparently your definition of small company is “really small”.
Way to side step the question.
Actually, it’s not - none of it is. For some reason, parents seem to think their responsibility to their children ends at 18 simply because that is when the law says their kid is an adult. Desert Nomad is a great example why folks shouldn’t be having a pile of kids, particularly close together, because it could easily happen that at least one of them is going to end up needing ongoing care. His parents were lucky that he can take care of himself, but far too many just expect society to pick up the slack for the sick kids they willy nilly dumped on the world.
Well, I really can’t afford all of them either.
Of course you would! You started this all out complaining about how you had to get lucky to get into a pool of high risk, and how expensive it is. If we had the sort of UHC you dream is possible, you wouldn’t have to pay near as much.
I’m not going to repeat myself.
Fine with me as long as you don’t expect me to throw money at it too.
Because it isn’t a delusion. Go back to those stats you? someone? posted awhile back on the average middle class salary. Do you know how averages are arrived at? Do you understand the difference between living in the midwest and living on either coast? The cost of living here is far higher, so a salary that sounds like a bunch to you is - wait for it - merely middle class here. I think you have no idea how much housing, gas, food and all of that, plus taxes, cost here.
Only if the USA finally becomes a commune. At which time there will be no incentive to earn anything if you can get it by sitting on your prat.
As for my “own selfish wants and desires” I will point out to you that you have those yourself, and that wanting to have enough money to retire on without having to - gasp! - depend on Social Security is hardly selfish.
So what if I make more than your family? Does it mean I am more responsible because I learned the skills to make such an income. No - of course not.
Insurance is very important to me… that is why I left the USA and lived in a country constantly under the threat of civil meltdown, listened to mortar shells being fired within earshot of my apartment, had only 4-6 hours of electricity per day and earned $500/mo. At the time, the Republic of Georgia was the only place I could get immediate residence once my US insurance was cut by my job going away.
A UK company was willing to insure me there for $100/mo ($200 for the both of us)… yet my chances of being killed or seriously maimed were magnitudes higher than in the US.
With few exceptions, small employers cannot be turned down. This is called guaranteed issue. If you employ at least 2 but not more than 50 people eligible for health benefits, health insurance companies must sell you any small group health plan they sell to other small employers. However, they can require that a minimum percentage of your eligible workers participate in your group health plan. They can also require you to contribute a minimum percentage of your workers’ premiums. If you are buying a large group health plan for 51 or more eligible employees, your group can be turned down.
For small groups, a medical report will be required of everyone in the group and guess what: This affects everyones rates. Lots of companies here have had to drop everyone’s coverage after one person gets seriously ill or if they hire any high-risk individuals. The insurance can’t drop 2-50 per-se, but they can make the costs so high as to mean the same thing.
I guarantee you are not middle class (neither am I as I said before). Earning $100,000 places you above middle class even in California. Even by California standards you are not as the median income there is $60,032.
I am sure the cost of living in Dubai is at least that of where you are. In Dubai I paid $1360/mo for a 480 sq ft. studio apartment. I earned less than you do the first year I was there, and I was definitely above middle class… as you are.
You gotta to admit that “middle class” is a range and not a specific number.
The word “median” is not equivalent to “middle class”.
Six figure incomes such as $100k are included as “middle class” in the wiki:
If $100,00 is not “middle class”, then what would you call it? It’s certainly not “rich” or “independently wealthy”. Even $200k/yr is not independently wealthy.
No, it is not wealthy. Wealthy is not having to work because of ones investments. I think middle class ends at about $90,000 as does the other source I cited earlier. This one says $97K: http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22600.html
I know everyone wants to be middle class. My brother earns in the $400K range and also considers himself middle class. I think when you earn more than 50% above median, you are outside of middle class.
No, but they CAN raise the premiums to ridiculous heights. There is NO upper limit to the cost of a monthly premium. When you are offered a policy where the monthly premium exceeds your gross monthly income then you have been denied but you are equally as much unable to afford the coverage.
Of course you don’t - but neither am I obligated to believe you if you don’t provide some sort of backup to your statements.
In that case you’re in the same boat as my husband, who is also awaiting determination from the Feds but is accepted as disabled by the state he lives in. But contrary to your materialistic viewpoint, the determination for social security disability is not dependent on funding but on the extent of your disability. The mere fact you can type will probably work against you, as it would seem to indicate your hands work sufficiently for you to hold a sedentary job although I am well aware of the fact that a person can be able to type for brief periods but unable to do so continuously for a full work day, or may have other condiions which prevent their gainful employment.
Of course not - I am intelligent enough to be able to evaluate the quality of the material I find. It is just as foolish to disbelieve everything on the internet as to believe everything you see.
You dismiss my 13 years with the company as a full-time employee, then come back with “well, I was a temp”? You’ve got nerve. And we used to give the temps that information, too. Either you didn’t work for Blue Cross at all, or you were in a pretty menial position to not have to know that.
I know my limitations and I’m honest about them. I never needed to know those laws for California so I didn’t learn them.
It’s not the parents making this decision it’s the insurance companies who write policies that end coverage for children 18 and above. There is NOTHING Desert Nomad’s parents can do to change the wording of an employer-provided policy. Why do you not understand that? Even if they had the means to pay for an individual policy for Desert Nomad it is unlikely you’d find any insurance company willing to insure him as an individual. Therefore, his only recourse is to either find an employer able to cover him (not all of them are) or move to country where people are guaranteed access to care. In other words, he did the responsible thing by moving to where he can get covered. What part of that doesn’t meet your exacting standards?
The number of siblings and how close they are in age are completely irrelevant to the condition Desert Nomad has.
In fact, number of children has little bearing on these matters - there are plenty of severely ill or disabled only children, and plenty of families with many children who are all healthy and able-bodied.
You are just spitefully trying to attribute random misfortune of others to some fault or lack in them.
Ah. So when misfortune strikes it’s the fault of the victim, but Desert Nomad’s parents were just “lucky” he’s able to take care of himself - the manner in which they raised him, the education they helped him get, the medical attention they made sure he got while growing up, none of their hard work could possibly have contributed to the outcome here, right? You don’t see how twisted that world view is, do you? If bad things happen to someone it’s their fault, if good things happen it’s “just luck”. Unless, of course, we happen to be talking about you, where the opposite applies and every good thing is because you’re so wonderfully responsible and every bad thing is just luck. Great double-standard.
Again, you’re not paying for all of everything required - just a very small portion. You don’t pay for the full cost of the streets and freeways you use, either, just a small portion. Same concept, but apparently the concept is lost on you. Probably lost in some vast, echoing, bone-encased void, actually, but I am unable to confirm that absolutely.
Actually, our current policy is NOT expensive. The price is quite reasonable. For now.
Actually, going by what percentage of my income I currently pay towards our current policy compared to typical percentages paid by people in countries with UHC my share would at least double under UHC and would probably be even higher than that. Which just points out the absurd inequities in our current “system” of providing healthcare.
So you keep saying - I keep hoping you’ll mean it.
Yes - that’s why I don’t live on either coast. If the cost of living is that punitive for you MOVE ELSEWHERE. I did that. Desert Nomad did that. Why do you expect us to give you a pass on this? You live in the state with the highest state income tax so if you move to any other state you will see an immediate lowering of your taxes. Move to many other states you would also see an immediate lowering of your cost of living. Don’t expect sympathy for staying in an expensive region of the country. If you don’t like it move elsewhere or, if there is some overriding reason you stay, stop whining about it.
Yeah, actually I do have an idea - that’s why I’d never move to many areas of California, or to New York City, or a lot of other places that it is expensive to live.
And yet you imply that you’ve applied for social security for reason of your disability. For shame! Making me support you by paying into social security while you sit on your idle butt! Of course, I actually do think providing support to the disabled is a worthy cause, even if they strictly speaking don’t need the money (which apparently you don’t, as you are under no threat of homelessness without it and you have already stated you get all the medical care you need). You can’t see how hypocritical you’re being?
I was commenting on the amount of your income you would be willing to give up to have insurance - which would still leave you more than we are making here. This makes it appear that insurance isn’t more important than making at least six figures to you.
Those are Nevada regulations in addition to the federal ones. Check the fed.
That is the median family income, for the whole state. Nothing like the middle class. You know the difference, right?
And, that is the last I am going to post on that subject. How much money my husband makes and whether or not we are middle class is just an attempt to pretend that anyone demanding money out of us has a right to do so. From now on, we can all just assume I am living like Bill Gates (except I’m smart enough to not live on Mercer Island) - you all still do not have anything approaching a right to tell me I must dump even more in taxes down the government rathole.
And how often did that happen with a group policy while you were working for Blue Cross?
Don’t care either way.
Showing how much you know on this subject too…
Interesting interpretation of what I wrote.
I didn’t ask about the Califorina laws, did I?
Insurance isn’t even close to the only responsibility parents have to the children they bring into this world. I think I was pretty clear that I wasn’t talking about insurance.
But it is totally relevant to whether or not there are even more people in this country who have medical issues they cannot afford to pay for, that you expect me to take care of. Why do you expect me to be more responsible for these people than their parents were?
I meant that there were lucky that he wasn’t totally disabled from birth and unable to make a living. Perhaps if you weren’t so bent on making me out to be an evil monster you might do better at reading what I post.
Again, I’m not going to repeat myself on that.
Then why do you keep asking the same questions and stating the same dumb things if you don’t want me to repeat myself?
Did I say it was punitive? I said that because of the cost of living here, what appears to be a huge salary to you is merely middle class here. If we move elsewhere, the cost of living would go down and so - surprise! - would the salary.
Because I have the right to live where I want, and you definitely don’t have the right to demand that I lower my standard of living so I’ll have money to give to the government rathole you happen to prefer. Really, talk about selfish and narrow minded - you think that a UHC is a wonderful idea and must be put in place, so therefore I am supposed to just chuck everything because you think I should. Unbelievable.
Give it a rest. I’ve paid into SS for almost 35 years, and am only applying to get what they would be giving me anyway, just a few years early.
Ah, I am supposed to be under the threat of homelessness before I can apply for SSDI? I guess technically I was since I applied when my husband was unemployed and we were living on his unemployment check and savings. Then he got a job, but no matter what you want to believe, we are not even close to easy street living on his one salary. Since the government moves slowly and there is always the possibility the husband will lose his job again before he is old enough to retire, I do hope to get that SSDI so I can continue to pay off our bills, build up our savings again and - gosh, what a concept - not end up being a burden to society. You know, that plan ahead thing?
Of course, I assume that the reason that your husband applied for SSDI because the two of you are under the threat of homelessness? :rolleyes:
Middle class doesn’t have a strict definition, but it’s generally considered to be one-half to twice the median income.
In California the median income for a 4-person family is $74,801. Adjustments are made for family size, so that has to be adjusted down to $50,800 for a two-person family. Middle class in California is therefore $25,400 to $101,600 for a two-person family.
There is a difference between being required to do something because the ass masses have voted it in, and having an individual come up and say “you must give all of your money to the cause I am supporting!”.
