# Would US troops fire on Canadian civilians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 8, 2025, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046 "2025-02-08T11:58:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/342 "2025-02-23T00:19:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The entire Republican party. I see them as ideologically inchoate Keystone Cops barely held together via Trump’s cult of personality. I don’t think there is much there to work with. Before Trump, all they could do was bitch and obstruct. After Trump, I think they’ll go back to doing that, though probably less effectively owing to the lingering expectations (and shame) of MAGA. > [@](#): > > Trump himself isn’t really fascist; that would require him to value a cause larger than himself and he doesn’t. Fascism is a standard he is psychologically incapably of rising to. Agreed, and I doubt he even understands what it is. He is a gut-level authoritarian, but he is not a visionary or a planner, which is one reason why I put his chances at becoming dictator so low. > [@](#): > > But when he dies the party will be there, and the true believers will be in position to take power, sideline or kill the billionaires and finally have the orgy of genocide they’ve dreamed of for so long. Lol, I do enjoy your colorful phrasing. Not sure the GOP comprises many “true believers.” Mostly just gutless opportunists. Any attempt to engage in genocide will immediately trigger a civil war. They will never get far enough to try. Without Trump, these fools have no rudder and no mojo. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/343 "2025-02-23T00:25:59Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Any attempt to engage in genocide will immediately trigger a civil war. People keep saying things like this, but I don’t see it happening. Most people would just ignore it or cheer it on, until their number came up. And it certainly wouldn’t happen over an _external_ genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/344 "2025-02-23T00:32:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > People keep saying things like this, I will. It’s obvious, IMO. Genocide starts. Gavin Newsom just goes, “Oh well.” No. He and Pritzker are already standing up to Trump. Action/reaction. > [@](#): > > but I don’t see it happening. Most people would just ignore it or cheer it on, until their number came up. “Most people” didn’t even _vote_ for Trump. > [@](#): > > And it certainly wouldn’t happen over an _external_ genocide. In the far less connected 1980s, people were constantly protesting Apartheid, among other things. Look at the protestations on both sides wrt the ongoing Israel/Hamas conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/345 "2025-02-23T00:36:22Z")
If the Republicans decide to genocide California, Gavin Newsom (assuming he was still alive and in power somehow) would be one of the first to die when the nukes fell on our cities. > [@Aeschines](#): > > In the far less connected 1980s, people were constantly protesting Apartheid, among other things. Look at the protestations on both sides wrt the ongoing Israel/Hamas conflict. None of which is a civil war. I don’t think that’s ever happened over a genocide happening to somebody else. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/346 "2025-02-23T00:39:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Not DEFINITELY. But fifty-fifty > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think it’s near 100%. So can either of you actually point to a time Trump has said the US should invade Canada, or that it should be forced to join the US through military action? This isn’t a man who keeps secrets or is good at being coy. He’s very open about what he wants to do. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/347 "2025-02-23T00:42:22Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > He is a gut-level authoritarian, but he is not a visionary or a planner, which is one reason why I put his chances at becoming dictator so low. He’s a dictator who is working at consolidating power. The reason I like the word dictator is that Trump has used it to describe himself. It might not be the best word here, where almost everyone is against DJT, but I find it defensible to use in mixed company. I think the most important thing he needs to do to be able to fire on Canadian civilians without tanking in polls is to get real control over mainstream television (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN) so Americans do not see the civilians being killed. He probably does not have a detailed plan, but suing them, and putting extremists on the FCC who might pull licenses, comes close. It’s not so much that he lacks a plan as that a whole lot of journalists are brave, so it is much harder to do than some think. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/348 "2025-02-23T00:42:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So can either of you actually point to a time Trump has said the US should invade Canada, or that it should be forced to join the US through military action? I already said it wasn’t just about Trump. And he’s using standard dictator-speak for an intent to conquer with his “51st state” rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/349 "2025-02-23T00:43:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If the Republicans decide to genocide California, Gavin Newsom (assuming he was still alive and in power somehow) would be one of the first to die when the nukes fell on our cities. As I said, even Putin himself, arguably one of the most evil-powerful men on the planet, has not used nukes on Ukraine. It’s an absurd speculation. > [@](#): > > None of which is a civil war. I don’t think that’s ever happened over a genocide happening to somebody else. My point is that people can and do care about injustice, even when it is not in their immediate self-interest to care. Even GOP nazi punks have relatives (and favorite vacation sites!) in California that they would not prefer to see destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/350 "2025-02-23T00:44:13Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Not sure the GOP comprises many “true believers.” Mostly just gutless opportunists. How would a gutful opportunist act? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/351 "2025-02-23T00:45:48Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > As I said, even Putin himself, arguably one of the most evil-powerful men on the planet, has not used nukes on Ukraine. _His_ goal isn’t to kill the majority of the human race; that _is_ the goal of the American White Nationalist movement. EDIT: Also, with Trump in power I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin uses nukes…assuming he thinks Russia still has ones that won’t fizzle. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/352 "2025-02-23T00:50:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And he’s using standard dictator-speak for an intent to conquer with his “51st state” rhetoric. Except that he’s specifically stated that he DOESN’T want to use military force against Canada. > **[Trump says he would use 'economic force' on Canada, not military](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXRFB6t5xJQ%2F1)** > > President-elect Donald Trump again outlined his issues with Canada on Tuesday, citing concerns about Canada's military and asserting that the U.S. is subsidi... ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/353 "2025-02-23T00:52:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Except that he’s specifically stated that he DOESN’T want to use military force against Canada. And you trust his word? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/354 "2025-02-23T00:55:16Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > He’s a dictator who is working at consolidating power. > > The reason I like the word dictator is that Trump has used it to describe himself. It might not be the best word here, where almost everyone is against DJT, but I find it defensible to use in mixed company. No real objection to this formulation. Trump has a certain image of himself in his mind (dictator, king, greatest POTUS of all time, etc.) that is at odds with most aspects of reality. And I agree that he is working in his own way on consolidating power, albeit quite incompetently. > [@](#): > > I think the most important thing he needs to do to be able to fire on Canadian civilians without tanking in polls is to get real control over mainstream television (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN) so Americans do not see the civilians being killed. He probably does not have a detailed plan, but suing them, and putting extremists on the FCC who might pull licenses, comes close. He would have to shut down the entire internet in the US as well. We’d be in civil war territory at this point as well. > [@](#): > > It’s not so much that he lacks a plan as that a whole lot of journalists are brave, so it is much harder to do than some think. Personally, I think Trump is totally winging it. He didn’t have Leon’s support at this level until close to the end of the election cycle, so the whole DOGE idea has to be pretty recent. My fear is not that Trump has a plan and competent people to implement it. Rather, my fear is that, granted the _fact_ that he is a petulant child who doesn’t understand what the results will be of pushing the legacy system (Congress, courts, military, etc.) to a particular level, and granted the near-fact _opinion_ that he is surrounded by nutjobs similarly lacking in understanding as well as the intention to do the right thing, he will continue to push until something really chaotic and bad and unpredictable happens, triggering a Civil War, revolution, etc., which in turn will have bad and unpredictable consequences. An invasion of Canada is far down my list of worries. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/355 "2025-02-23T00:57:47Z")
Like this guy: > **[Heinrich Müller (Gestapo)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_M%C3%BCller_(Gestapo))** > > Heinrich Müller (28 April 1900; date of death unknown, but evidence points to May 1945) was a high-ranking German Schutzstaffel (SS) and police official during the Nazi era. For most of World War II in Europe, he was the chief of the Gestapo, the secret state police of Nazi Germany. Müller was central in the planning and execution of the Holocaust and attended the January 1942 Wannsee Conference, which formalised plans for deportation and genocide of all Jews in German-occupied Europe—The " He ... Not a Nazi party member but an evil dude ready and willing to serve Hitler when the opportunity presented itself. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/356 "2025-02-23T01:02:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _His_ goal isn’t to kill the majority of the human race; that _is_ the goal of the American White Nationalist movement. Which is very small in terms of absolute numbers. > [@](#): > > EDIT: Also, with Trump in power I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin uses nukes…assuming he thinks Russia still has ones that won’t fizzle. I agree that the probability is larger, albeit still very small. Europe could annihilate Putin’s forces instantly, even without the help of the US. And yes, it’s an open question as to whether Russia still has nukes that work at all, and how many. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/357 "2025-02-23T01:04:15Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Which is very small in terms of absolute numbers. Doesn’t matter when they run the government. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/358 "2025-02-23T01:05:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And you trust his word? You certainly seem to take him at his word when he says he wants Canada to be part of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/359 "2025-02-23T01:09:11Z")
It does, since they would not be able to gain popular support. Which would prevent them from running it in the first place. Yeah, nazi mutherfucker Leon is there, but he wasn’t legitimately appointed, and he is wildly unpopular. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/360 "2025-02-23T01:10:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You certainly seem to take him at his word when he says he wants Canada to be part of the US. No, I just recognize that he’s an insane greedy narcissistic who wants everything he can grab. What he _wants_ is complete control of the universe with himself as God. He can’t have that, but he _can_ have Canada conquered for him. And again, it’s not just about Trump it’s about the fascists in general. Something I’ve said more than once but you are ignoring. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046/361 "2025-02-23T01:10:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You certainly seem to take him at his word when he says he wants Canada to be part of the US. That is the logic at work here: anything that can be seen as a cause of fear is to be maximized, but anything that can been seen as a mitigating factor is to be minimized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-us-troops-fire-on-canadian-civilians/1014046.md?page=19)