# Would we lose anything if we ended all Sheriff's departments? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2024, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347 "2024-08-06T20:02:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/81 "2024-08-08T00:44:24Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In the county I work in there are no unincorporated areas. The Sheriff still has a role it’s just not patrol. Like I said before the jobs they do have to be done. It doesn’t matter what you call them. > > In New Jersey the role of patrolling otherwise uncovered areas falls on the state police. Back when they were formed by H. Norman Schwarzkopf Sr that was their main purpose. They patrol many small towns that are too small to have their own police force. Part of the towns taxes go to the state to pay for it. I used to live in a town where if I called 911 I would get the state police. We have no unincorporated areas in my _state_ but the above is very much like my state. Small towns can pay for state police coverage. Our sheriff’s own webpage states their primary duties are: - Ensure safety within the County Justice Complex. _(though there is also uniformed security guards, separate from sheriff deputies)_ - Enforce court orders. - Serve all criminal and civil writs issued by the Courts. - Transport prisoners throughout the Commonwealth and perform extraditions from other states for court proceedings. - Assist other law enforcement agencies process DUI offenders. - Issue licenses to carry firearms. - Conduct sales of real and personal property. - Assist local and regional law enforcement agencies during emergencies and apprehensions. They do not do any primary patrolling. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/82 "2024-08-08T02:45:39Z")
Myself, I’m one of those who supports eliminating the _ **elective** _ office of Sherriff and turning the outfit into just another agency subordinate to the county government to provide support for Law Enforcement and courts. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/83 "2024-08-08T05:26:50Z")
I agree with this. Maybe we could avoid more so called, “Constitutional Sheriffs” and so help us dar leafs. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/84 "2024-08-08T06:34:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No one would come to my house if I called if we didn’t have sheriffs. We are in an unincorporated portion of a county. County sheriff and state police is all we have. Yeah, this varies enormously state by state. Also many incorporated cities and towns hire the LA County (and others) Sheriffs to do the policing. It is cheaper and more effective. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Incorporated cities can raise taxes to fund local police. Unincorporated rural areas, such as the one I live in, have only county level protection: Sheriffs’ departments. There isn’t a large enough tax base in rural areas to support individual police departments without tax help from countywide levies. Yep > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Sheriff’s Departments vary by state. But overall, I do believe they are a largely archaic thing that could be phased out. Not in California. > [@Procrustus](#): > > In our county (and I’m sure many others) the sheriff’s office runs the jail. If the local police want to lock someone up, that’s where they go. That’s $19 million out of a total budget of around $53 million. $18 million is for Patrol. yep. I think some here are basing their opinions on _their state-_ which of course could be true - for that state. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Over the past 40+ years, I’ve lived in unincorporated areas for which primary law enforcement responsibilities fell to county sheriffs. In the wealthy county where I lived in California, coverage was quite good. We even rated a sub station in my little unincorporated town. Yep. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m all for having good police protection. I pay a lot for mine. So do the residents of a county. And incorporated cities that choose to hire the Sheriffs dept. Also in a large county with many small cities- do you really want criminals to escape over a city border and laugh at the police with no jurisdiction? Commit a crime in one small town, and live in another. (Yes, I know that when in “hot pursuit” they can cross those borders- but not when serving warrants, etc). > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > BUT…ISTM rural people tend to be MAGA and furious at subsidizing things in big cities ( Rural? My unincorporated community is by no means rural. Suburban. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I assume people who live in unincorporated areas deliberately do so to have lower taxes and be more “free” in some sense. My taxes are no lower. Some county taxes are only for unincorporated areas. Mind you- in some cities in my county the taxes could be higher- or even lower. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My point being, why do I pay for a sheriff and police? Do you? Some county taxes are only for unincorporated areas. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am suggesting if there were no sheriffs then the local police would take over those duties. Small towns have issues with owning their own police force. > [@pkbites](#): > > IMHO if anything it’s municipal police departments that should be eliminated and all law enforcement should be run by the Sheriff who, in most states, is already the chief leo in the county. This is a better idea. > [@pkbites](#): > > Almost all Sheriffs are elected and anyone can run. Not in CA. [https://www.slocounty.ca.gov/departments/clerk-recorder/forms-documents/elections-and-voting/non-election-specific/qualifications-to-run-for-office/declaration-regarding-qualifications-to-run-fo-(6)](https://www.slocounty.ca.gov/departments/clerk-recorder/forms-documents/elections-and-voting/non-election-specific/qualifications-to-run-for-office/declaration-regarding-qualifications-to-run-fo-(6)) > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > In Gwinnett county, the unincorporated areas pay 2.9 mill for police. Incorporated areas that have their own police departments funded from city taxes pay 0 mill for police to the county. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/85 "2024-08-08T21:53:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > But, that’s not entirely fair, as they provide court security (benefits you) as well as patrol the roads outside of the city (which you drive on from time to time) and a host of other activities that might benefit you to some extent. Do you drive into the city from time to time? Then should you help pay for the city police department? Same argument. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The notion that all services are covered by municipalities and state police is tacitly saying that anyone who doesn’t live in a city or in the narrow suburban corridors and sprawls adjacent to highways don’t matter or deserve responsible public safety services, which is just not reality as those who live in rural areas or have bothers to venture off of a major highway once in a while can attest to. That sounds like a straw man to me. Eliminating the Sheriff’s department doesn’t mean eliminating law enforcement, just delegating it to a different level. > [@enipla](#): > > I pay taxes towards schools. I have no kids. I don’t complain about the taxes though. This would be like paying for your city schools and also paying for county schools, but there are no county schools in the city. > [@Pasta](#): > > Your area’s local choices need not be framed as the fault of those in unincorporated areas that had nothing to do with your tax bill for whatever additional and potentially redundant services you wanted to pay for. The problem is it’s mostly not redundant. It’s not two overlapping systems that duplicate service, it’s two mostly (but not entirely) independent systems, but the city dweller is paying for both their own city police and the county sheriff that doesn’t serve the city. People in unincorporated areas are being subsidized by city residents. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > At any rate, just because you have a police department to patrol your area doesn’t mean that everyone lives within a city. So? > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Those outside the city have patrol services provided by the sheriff’s office. Those outside the city still pay county taxes. Sure. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > If the Sheriff’s office did not exist, larger cities would need to provide police and fire services to the unincorporated areas. Why? Is that conclusion somehow drawn from either of your statements above? Cities don’t need to provide water, sewer, schools, roads, building departments, or anything else to unincorporated areas. Why would they need to provide police and fire services to them? > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > But, the cities wouldn’t be able to collect taxes. So, at that point, you would be fully funding their patrol services from your taxes, and they would pay nothing. Seems like that’s the opposite of what you want. So, in that case, you should not advocate for getting rid of the Sheriff. Cities don’t collect taxes from unincorporated areas, but they do pay (partially) for the sheriffs. My perspective is from Cincinnati. I suspect there’s perhaps too many state-to-state differences to make a general statement, but the case here is that county sheriffs have jurisdiction in incorporated and unincorporated areas, and they receive funding from both, but they do not serve incorporated areas, especially not Cincinnati proper. The only time you see them in the city is when they’re going to court. The court’s operations don’t have to necessarily be under the sheriff’s umbrella, and of course in specific incidents/operations they cooperate with other departments, but all departments do that. As a general rule though, they stick to their turf even though they should be everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/86 "2024-08-08T22:11:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Do you? Some county taxes are only for unincorporated areas. Pretty sure I do. Especially since the vast majority of my county is incorporated (Cook County which includes Chicago). That said, I am having a weirdly hard time trying to find the numbers on this. You’d think it should be easy to find how much a given public service costs and how it is funded but I’m not finding it on a quick search. I am willing to bet the info is out there but it should not be this hard to get it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/87 "2024-08-08T22:27:44Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > This would be like paying for your city schools and also paying for county schools, but there are no county schools in the city. Your city is in a county. I help pay for those (well really state tax mostly), but do not live in an incorporated town. > [@jjakucyk](#): > > Why? Is that conclusion somehow drawn from either of your statements above? Cities don’t need to provide water, sewer, schools, roads, building departments, or anything else to unincorporated areas. Why would they need to provide police and fire services to them? And that makes no sense at all. You clearly know nothing about how local governments work. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/88 "2024-08-08T22:29:06Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > You clearly know nothing about how local governments work. Do unincorporated areas have local governments? Kinda thought that was the point…not to have one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/89 "2024-08-08T22:33:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Do unincorporated areas have local governments? Kinda thought that was the point…not to have one. Mine does, and many in CA do. I am not sure if you know enough about this issue. Maybe research more and come back- the pie is optional. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/90 "2024-08-08T22:42:15Z")
> An incorporated town or city in the [United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) is a [municipality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality) that is [incorporated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_corporation) under state law. An incorporated town will have elected officials, as differentiated from an [unincorporated community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincorporated_community), which exists only by tradition and does not have elected officials at the town level. In some states, [civil townships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_township) may sometimes be called towns, but are generally not incorporated municipalities, but are administrative subdivisions and derive their authority from statute rather than from a charter. - [SOURCE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporated_town) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/91 "2024-08-08T22:42:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Do unincorporated areas have local governments? Kinda thought that was the point…not to have one. Local governments? No. It’s County government headed up by elected County Commissioners (that the towns vote for as well, because they are located in the county). But of course all are regulated a bit differently, and can make up some of their own regulations. To a point. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/92 "2024-08-08T22:44:37Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Your city is in a county. I help pay for those (well really state tax mostly), but do not live in an incorporated town. Yes my city is in a county (there’s a few exceptions like St. Louis and I think Baltimore, but those are rare cases). But what is it you help pay for? > [@enipla](#): > > And that makes no sense at all. You clearly know nothing about how local governments work. What makes no sense about what I said? I do not appreciate your insulting tone. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/93 "2024-08-08T22:52:21Z")
We have a few City & Countys here in Colorado. The fact they they have both city police and county sheriffs is a good indicator that they are not duplicates of each other. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/94 "2024-08-08T23:06:23Z")
OK, sorry. Let’s try to learn. > [@jjakucyk](#): > > Yes my city is in a county (there’s a few exceptions like St. Louis and I think Baltimore, but those are rare cases). But what is it you help pay for? St. Louis isn’t in a county? This, I want to know about. What do we help pay for? Emergency services for one. For both City and County. Schools for another for both city and county and State. Another thing that county government does is record all of the legal transactions in the county. Be it in a town or unincorporated. If you want to find a legal transaction about the ownership of your property you go to the County (at least in Colorado). Marriage license? Go to the county for the records. This is the primary repository for all recorded document for the entire county. The county government also appraises all properties in the county, be it in a town or unincorporated for tax reasons. If you want data, you go to the county. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/95 "2024-08-08T23:07:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > We have a few City & Countys here in Colorado. The fact they they have both city police and county sheriffs is a good indicator that they are not duplicates of each other. Denver being the big one. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/96 "2024-08-08T23:08:28Z")
The question is about sheriffs. Not that counties exist. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/97 "2024-08-08T23:14:38Z")
St. Louis and Baltimore are “[independent cities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_city_(United_States))” that are not part of the county that surrounds them. Similarly, in Ohio, counties are divided into townships, but townships do not overlay (underlay?) cities. So when one (or several) municipalities incorporate over the entirety of a township, that township ceases to exist. This is relevant to the sheriff discussion because it illustrates how services and jurisdictions may or may not overlap one another. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > We have a few City & Countys here in Colorado. The fact they they have both city police and county sheriffs is a good indicator that they are not duplicates of each other. Maybe so, but considering what I said above, the funding may not align with the service territory. If all residents of a county (whether city or unincorporated) pay for the sheriff, but only unincorporated areas are served by the sheriff, then that’s an issue to be discussed and potentially changed. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/98 "2024-08-08T23:16:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The question is about sheriffs. Not that counties exist. Umm … enipla was stating that Denver is the largest City & County in Colorado as a followup to my post. And with their budget woes, they would definitely go with only one (either [police](https://www.denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Police-Department) or [sheriff](https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Sheriff-Department) but not both) if they could. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/99 "2024-08-08T23:19:54Z")
I would assume then that the Denver sheriff and Denver police have very distinct and non-overlapping roles. In which case fine…someone needs to do prisoner transfers and process serving and all that stuff. But, I know people who have been pulled over for speeding by a sheriff deputy. The sheriff is doing “normal” police stuff for people who do not want to pay for police. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347/100 "2024-08-08T23:20:22Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And with their budget woes, they would definitely go with only one (either [police](https://www.denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Police-Department) or [sheriff](https://denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Sheriff-Department) but not both) if they could. I don’t see how this would save money. The same services would need to be performed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-we-lose-anything-if-we-ended-all-sheriffs-departments/1005347.md?page=6)