My reply got borked multiple times so I’ll just do it briefly this time.
You would still have to pay for both. The Sheriff’s office generally performs duties that local departments don’t. Eliminate the Sheriffs and those jobs will just have to be done by someone else. The only difference is they would be wearing a different uniform. It’s a big country and I’m sure there is some redundancy in certain jurisdictions. In the county I work in there is no overlap between local and county police. They handle their jobs in the court and the jail and town cops handle their jobs.
That’s my point. To change the situation several members of the council have to be replaced. That can take many election cycles. With a Sheriff only one person has to be booted out.
Bernalillo County voters recently booted an idiot of a sheriff who seemed to have been elected because of the D after his name. Why such a position is partisan aside, there was definite remorse of “well, this is why you don’t mindlessly vote straight ticket.” Much better than the controversies around Albuquerque police and leadership that’s still somehow employed.
This is the sort of thread I find frustrating, where you get liberals going “Well, I don’t use that, so it has no value.” Which is a response they wouldn’t accept from the other side about something they use.
In your area. What is being said here, by many people, is that in many counties and states, particularly in unincorporated areas, there is no local police, other than the sheriff’s department.
When I was young, my family lived in a comfortable suburban area, outside of Green Bay. But, it was an unincorporated village, and our “police” service was provided by the county sheriff.
The million dollar question here is if the sheriff goes away, do your taxes go down?
Here’s an example of why eliminating the sheriff in unincorporated areas may not reduce your taxes: Gwinnett County Millage Rates
In Gwinnett county, the unincorporated areas pay 2.9 mill for police. Incorporated areas that have their own police departments funded from city taxes pay 0 mill for police to the county.
This may not be the case where you live, but it is evident that it is straightforward to set up tax rates so that folks like you who locally fund law enforcement aren’t funding law enforcement for areas without local police. There’s no need to blow up the idea of Sheriffs, when the problem is solved with a 1 page tax table.
In the county I work in there are no unincorporated areas. The Sheriff still has a role it’s just not patrol. Like I said before the jobs they do have to be done. It doesn’t matter what you call them.
In New Jersey the role of patrolling otherwise uncovered areas falls on the state police. Back when they were formed by H. Norman Schwarzkopf Sr that was their main purpose. They patrol many small towns that are too small to have their own police force. Part of the towns taxes go to the state to pay for it. I used to live in a town where if I called 911 I would get the state police.
While I don’t think this way of thinking makes sense, as others have thoughtfully described, taking it at face value for a moment –
Why isn’t your starting point that the sheriff services are the default? If you don’t want to “pay for both”, your municipality didn’t have to create its (in your eyes redundant) police force when services were already available, and you didn’t have to choose to incorporate at all (or you can get your neighbors onboard with dissolving your municipality). Your area’s local choices need not be framed as the fault of those in unincorporated areas that had nothing to do with your tax bill for whatever additional and potentially redundant services you wanted to pay for.
The closest town to me has ~300 residents. It’s incorporated as it has a mayor and such.
They also have a police department. But either can’t afford it, or no one wants the job. Oh, about every other year someone takes the job for 6 months or so.
So, since they have a ‘cop car’ (mid-sided SUV) that has all the lights and badges and paint job and stuff, but no cop, the put a mannequin in it and park it on the side of the road to deter speeders. The locals call him ‘Barney’.
That’s my closest Police protection besides the county.
Are you sure that Procrustus doesn’t pay a bit of their property taxes to directly fund sheriff protection?
Where I live there’s 2 townships neighboring our city. Our city has a full municipal police force. One of the townships has their own full municipal police force, the other township opts to use the county sheriff’s department. They assign 1 or 2 deputies to the township. The township has to CONTRACT the sheriff’s office, it’s not a free service. The township tried to switch to contracting with our city to have them cover it instead but our city said no. I guess the township isn’t happy with the cost of the sheriff’s contract and our city wasn’t interested in contracting for any less.
FWIW our fire department does cover both townships, by contract.
Anyway, it may seem like this township gets “free” sheriff services from the county but they are indeed paying extra, through property tax revenue. It’s just not specifically mentioned in the property tax breakdown.
That could be the case for where @Procrustus lives, and where you live too. But maybe not.
There’s a mess of local politics and special interests; some in favor of incorporation and some opposed. And some element of racism in the case of East L.A.
Where do your police take arrestees? The county jail, most likely. In my hometown, the police department has a very small jail. If the police take someone there, it is only very briefly before moving them to the country jail. (ETA: I’m not talking about a small police department, either. This is the 2nd largest department in Florida and the 50th largest in the country. They have a very tiny jail because they don’t really use it. They utilize the county jail. All of the departments in the area do. Even the Tribal police, Federal and State agencies. They all use the county jail.)
(Edited again to add: I just looked online. The tiny jail I was talking about is now permanently closed. Also, it was apparently ran by the Sheriff’s Office as well even though it was in the middle of the city.)
All the police departments in the county, and the Sheriff’s department themselves, take those arrested to central booking at the county jail. If the inmates do not post bond or are not released, they are held at the county jail. Tax-payer funded and a benefit to everyone in the county, even those within the city. The state district court bailiffs and security are provided by the sheriff’s department.
At any rate, just because you have a police department to patrol your area doesn’t mean that everyone lives within a city. Those outside the city have patrol services provided by the sheriff’s office. Those outside the city still pay county taxes. If the Sheriff’s office did not exist, larger cities would need to provide police and fire services to the unincorporated areas. But, the cities wouldn’t be able to collect taxes. So, at that point, you would be fully funding their patrol services from your taxes, and they would pay nothing. Seems like that’s the opposite of what you want. So, in that case, you should not advocate for getting rid of the Sheriff.
This. The town I live in is suburban, not rural and borders Scottsdale, tribal lands, and state forest. We do not have a police department, but we have 30 sheriff’s deputies and a captain assigned to the town. We pay close to $5 million annually for the service.
Taxes are not a la carte. Who runs the schools in your city? In my area, the county runs the schools. There are county services that you are enjoying, even if you don’t realize it. Your city isn’t providing everything. You don’t get to pick and choose where your tax money goes or which services you want added to your tax bill. Even if you live in a city, you also still have to pay county, State and Federal taxes. I bet you don’t see the DEA every day. I bet most of the drug busts in your area are done by the local police. But, you still have to pay for the DEA.
Really? We live in our area (unincorporated) because of the natural beauty (Puget Sound waterfront), good schools, and access to Seattle via ferry when we like.
I don’t feel any more “free” than when I lived within the Seattle city limits. I’m also not sure my taxes are any lower. Certainly not in any significant way.
Note, I just looked it up:
County
Median Home Value
Average Effective Property Tax Rate
Island
$382,900
0.91%
Jefferson
$362,300
0.79%
King
$601,100
1.05%
Kitsap
$362,700
1.03%
So, houses are cheaper on average. Taxes are about the same. (My house in Kitsap is worth more than my house in Seattle was worth, so my taxes went up)
….A number of people have called and emailed me with the question of ‘am I a Constitutional
Sheriff’? When I was first asked that question I thought it meant,
‘is the Office of the Sheriff in
Nebraska established in our constitution’? I can tell you it is not. Nor, is the Office of Sheriff
mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. The excerpts below show the Nebraska Constitution gives
the authority to establish sheriff’s offices to the Legislature. … [from www.lancaster.gov, my county sheriff’s answer to is he a ‘constitutional sheriff’]
….“constitutional sheriffs” believe that sheriffs are the highest
governmental authority and that they have the power and duty to defy or disregard laws they
deem unconstitutional. Those last three words should concern all of us. “they deem
unconstitutional”. Nowhere are Sheriffs given the legal authority to interpret the Constitution….
Therefore, my county sheriff concludes that there are no ‘constitutional sheriffs’ in my state. Certainly not as so many wish there was. Those ‘constitutional sheriffs believers’ are fascism adjacent as was determined in Arizona for example.
My Sheriff’s dept runs the jail and courts. They house some federal, and perhaps state prisoners in the jail and charge for it. Every week there’s a report in the paper listing total inmates and how many are federal or other agencies.
I’m curious whether the OP is annoyed about the apparent duplication of sevices in their home urban/suburban jurisdiction or is concerned about the SovCit or Fascist tendencies of more rural sheriffs nationwide.
Both are legit issues but they need different solutions.