# Would wild kangaroos do well in Africa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352 "2013-05-02T20:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/21 "2013-05-03T11:39:22Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I don’t know but I guarantee it was more that 200 years ago. The first ships would have had them to keep the rats down. > > Yes we have both cats and toxo, but I’ve never heard of that being a problem for 'roos. One reason might be that the remaining 'roos live in the outback (either farms or desert) whereas cats tend to live in urban or scrubland areas. > > They kill a lot of local wildlife, but not 'roos so far as I know. > > FWIW there is a herd of kangaroos that live wild in England, Somewhere like Devon or Cornwall IIRC. Ah, [here we are](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_kangaroo) - also in France, Japan and other unlikely places. Cats eating roos is not the problem. Toxoplasmosis in the 'roos is the problem, and cats are hosts for that parasite. Granted, it may be more of a problem on open enclosures, than in truly wild herds. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/22 "2013-05-04T02:51:59Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Cats eating roos is not the problem. Toxoplasmosis in the 'roos is the problem, and cats are hosts for that parasite. Granted, it may be more of a problem on open enclosures, than in truly wild herds. I understand that, I’m saying that if they don’t share a habitat transmission will be rare. Cats would have to poo on grass that 'roos eat. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/23 "2013-05-04T04:32:13Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Africa doesn’t really have large canines like wolves outside of the badly endangered Ethiopian wolf… It used to: Lycaon pictus, the African wild dog (also called the painted wolf). But these days African wild dogs are almost as endangered as Ethiopian wolves, so they wouldn’t pose a big threat to any kangaroos introduced today. In the past, though, it would have been quite another matter… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/24 "2013-05-04T05:02:54Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I second this. South America and Africa have large predatory species of cats (lions, leopards, jaguars, cougars) that are not found in Australia. But … aren’t all of those large African cats Endangered Species these days? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/25 "2013-05-04T08:42:14Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > Do invasive species ever originate in a small ecosystem and take over a much larger one? Routinely. Just take a walk through the everglades and you will find entire land systems totally dominated by tea tree, white cedar, tuckeroo, blue gum, umbrella trees and around 100 other Australian species. Large land masses have a proportionally higher chance of providing species that are competitive in any environment, but it is strictly proportional. There is nothing inherent about small land masses that makes any individual species less competitive. Because Australia and North America are home to about the same number of plant species, the number that have become invasive are about equal both ways. In contrast, North America is home to 1000 mammal species, and Australia to about 300 mammal species, so you would expect around 3 times more of the American specie sot be competitive in Australia than the reverse. In the case of animals, that’s further skewed because of the direction of introduction. While people have attempted to establish at least 500 species of exotic mammals in Australia, many of them form Africa nobody has ever, as far as I know, tried to establish any Australian mammals outside of Australia except in New Zealand. But there is no reason why organisms from small ecosystems can’t become established in larger ones. It’s less likely because there are fewer of them, but proportionally the odds should be about the same. > [@](#): > > It seems the ones that invaded Australia came from larger ecosystems and according to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species_of_Australian_origin), the invasive species from Australia end up taking over a smaller ecosystem (New Zealand). And also Africa, India, China, SA, Mexico and most of South America, all of which are riddled with Australian weeds. Australian plants have become invasive at a greater rate than Australian mammals, because plants were deliberately established, whereas animals, by and large, were not. > [@](#): > > So if a bunch of wild kangaroo are released in Africa or South America, would they do well or would they be quickly wiped out? It’s impossible to say without trying. Considering that only about 10 mammals managed to establish in Australia, out of 500 deliberate and hundreds of more unintentional introductions, the odds of any species establishing in an exotic ecosystem seem to be remote. It took almost 100 years of persistent effort to establish rabbits in Australia before they became acclimatised. But if the odds of any mammal establishing in an exotic locale are 1 in 100, then kangaroos have about a 1 in 100 chance of establishing in Africa or South America. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/26 "2013-05-04T09:14:32Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Kangaroos around here (Georgia) die of toxoplasmosis very frequently. I wonder if that is the same in Australia, or if, due to the difference in ecosystem, the animals are easily stressed in the new environments that they get infected and die. That’s one of the major hurdles to farming roos. Because they are widely nomadic, they can’t handle grazing on grass contaminated with roo faeces. If you try to enclose them in a small area, they will die of diseases like toxoplasma. It’s nothing to do with it being an exotic disease, since Toxoplasma is ubiquitoius in native rodents, even those on offshore islands with no cats. > [@appleciders](#): > > Surely they’d happily take down a young 'roo, but I think a herd of kangaroos would be able to defend themselves pretty well. Kangaroos don’t form herds for defence. They respond to predators by fleeing > [@Askance](#): > > Yes we have both cats and toxo, but I’ve never heard of that being a problem for 'roos. One reason might be that the remaining 'roos live in the outback (either farms or desert) whereas cats tend to live in urban or scrubland areas. :eek: Ignoring spillover from urban areas, the highest densities of cats \*are \*[found in outback areas](http://bie.ala.org.au/species/Cat). As for “remaining” roos, I don’t know what that means. There are far more roos of all species in Australia now than at any time in the past 40, 000 years. But the salient point is that the range of any roo in Australia will overlap with at least a a few hundreds cats, regardless of where it lives. Roos certainly don’t all live in the outback. In fact only one of the 5 or so species is common in the outback. Additionally, most of the outback is scrubland, whereas that is a threatened habitat in more humid regions. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/27 "2013-05-04T09:31:33Z")
Give them aq chance to get established and I reckon they’d thrive in Africa. The buggers are seriously quick and there aren’t that many Lions left in the wild. Good tucker though.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/28 "2013-05-04T10:04:38Z")
Kangeroos actually don’t run away from predators. They stop and jump at the predator . This works against a dingo, who finds its face planted into a kangeroo’s ribcage, gets all out of sorts and wimpers off. The dingo is an overgrown scavenger… The small african predators will be able to dodge the kangeroo’s attack and latch on to a leg or tail. The Lion , a real predator, is expecting to collide with the prey. Kangeroos are fussy, they won’t like to cross any ground except forest or grass. They won’t cross rivers, mud, sand, rock… They’d be easily trapped by the predators. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/29 "2013-05-04T11:07:08Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Kangeroos actually don’t run away from predators. They stop and jump at the predator . Rubbish > [@](#): > > This works against a dingo, who finds its face planted into a kangeroo’s ribcage, gets all out of sorts and wimpers off. Utter rubbish. > [@](#): > > The dingo is an overgrown scavenger. Even worse rubbish. > [@](#): > > Kangeroos are fussy, they won’t like to cross any ground except forest or grass. > They won’t cross rivers, mud, sand, rock.. They’d be easily trapped by the predators. Total bullshit. Not only is every riverbed in Australia, sand, mud or rocks, covered in kangaroo tracks, but kangaroos are ubiquitous throughout the central sandy deserts, where there is nothing \*but \*sand and rock for literally thousands of square miles And to drive home what utter nonsense this is, the three species of wallaroo actually \*prefer \*[rocky environments](http://cdn2.arkive.org/media/D2/D278DF60-7DF7-43F2-A3FD-FDB5E2462383/Presentation.Large/Common-wallaroo-subspecies-woodwardi-taking-shelter-close-to-rocks.jpg) and will really only cross open ground when traveling \*between \*hills. And just to really highlight what bullshit your post has been, the final defence for a roo that can’t outrun a predator is to head \*into \*water, where they use their height advantage to try to drown their pursuers. Far from being trapped by predators because they refuse to enter water, roos enter water to \*escape \*from predators. Seriously dude, GQ is for factual answers. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/30 "2013-05-04T11:34:40Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Kangeroos are fussy, they won’t like to cross any ground except forest or grass. > They won’t cross rivers, mud, sand, rock.. They’d be easily trapped by the predators. Roos are quite territorial and will stare down a predators if they can , camping in Kosciusko National Park I had them graze three foot from my night because I’m their land but hey can swim if they want and have been sighted miles offshore. I recently watched some rednecks run down and stone a kangaroo to death, doesn’t really argue well to living with real predators such as lions. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/31 "2013-05-04T12:46:29Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > That’s one of the major hurdles to farming roos. Because they are widely nomadic, they can’t handle grazing on grass contaminated with roo faeces. If you try to enclose them in a small area, they will die of diseases like toxoplasma. It’s nothing to do with it being an exotic disease, since Toxoplasma is ubiquitoius in native rodents, even those on offshore islands with no cats. Thanks! I was not sure about how common Toxoplasma is in Australia, compared to other areas. Yes, all kangaroos I get have a “possible cause of death: toxoplasmosis” until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/32 "2013-05-05T00:53:05Z")
> [@bluezooky](#): > > Roos are quite territorial… Cite! > [@](#): > > .. and will stare down a predators if they can Cite!. Really, those claims are both utter nonsense.. Can you provide even a \*single \*example of a \*single \*kangaroo exhibiting territoriality or staring down a predator as the first resort? > [@](#): > > I recently watched some rednecks run down and stone a kangaroo to death, doesn’t really argue well to living with real predators such as lions. Sure you did. :rolleyes: Even a \*juvenile \*can sustain the speed of the world’s best track sprinter for distances of several _kilometres_. Yet “some rednecks” ran one down. Cross-country. While carrying large rocks. What is it about kangaroos that prompts people to post such obvious nonsense? We seem to get multiple posts of the most incredible rubbish in every thread. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/33 "2013-05-05T01:30:55Z")
They can’t be that fast if you can catch them and tie them down. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/34 "2013-05-06T02:27:24Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > As for “remaining” roos, I don’t know what that means. There are far more roos of all species in Australia now than at any time in the past 40, 000 years. I meant areas that roos remain in - the point being that areas that have been (sub-)urbanised will have few if any remaining. I’m well aware roos themselves are not endangered, I wouldn’t eat them so often if they were! ---
**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/35 "2013-05-06T02:27:52Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > They can’t be that fast if you can catch them and tie them down. Ok Sport. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/36 "2013-05-06T12:14:23Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > But … aren’t all of those large African cats Endangered Species these days? Nope. Lions and Cheetahs are “Threatened-Vulnerable”, which is [not the same thing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_status) as “Threatened-Endangered”, and Leopards are only “Near-Threatened”. This doesn’t mean things are hunky-dory for them by any means, but it’s not quite as bad as being Endangered. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/37 "2013-05-06T12:21:24Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Kangaroos don’t form herds for defence. They respond to predators by fleeing Somewhere, a cheetah pricks up its ears… I know, their success rate is abominable. Part of the reason they’re Vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/38 "2013-05-06T14:56:42Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Even a \*juvenile \*can sustain the speed of the world’s best track sprinter for distances of several _kilometres_. Yet “some rednecks” ran one down. Cross-country. While carrying large rocks. Based on my viewing of various hunting shows, I believe these claims credible. The Redneck is an ambush predator… ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/39 "2013-05-06T16:03:22Z")
_deleted_ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352/40 "2013-05-06T16:42:55Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Kangeroos actually don’t run away from predators. They stop and jump at the predator . > > \ > > The Lion , a real predator, is expecting to collide with the prey. Lions and other felines are instinctive predators, though. They have evolved to hunt (mostly) very specific prey types by clamping their jaws around the windpipe. A lion could never reach a kangaroo’s windpipe, so they’d only hunt kangaroos if driven to do so by starvation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-wild-kangaroos-do-well-in-africa/657352.md?page=3)