# Would You Be Proud if Your Sister was a Stripper? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 8, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564 "2004-11-08T00:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/61 "2004-11-08T19:18:15Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Let’s just say if it was my sister. . .I DEFINITELY wouldn’t hold it against her. Trunk . . . what if the both of you were from Arkansas? 😃 ::d&r:: ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/62 "2004-11-08T19:35:47Z")
I dunno what they made per night or anything, but I noticed the girls at the club I used to frequent had VERY nice cars. ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/63 "2004-11-08T19:36:55Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I can’t even imagine what strippers at Deja Vu in Springfield make, because all I have to go on is your claim that it was “not uncommon” for them to make $1500 on a weekend night. This doesn’t really tell me much about their annual income. To estimate that, I’d have to know what they made on an _average_ night (not a “not uncommon” night) and how many nights per year they worked. Even that estimate wouldn’t give us a very accurate picture without knowing what their work-related expenses were (costumes, cab fare, bikini waxes) and whether they received any kind of benefit package or had to pay for all insurance, etc., out of pocket. > > Perhaps strippers at some upscale joints, particularly in big cities, really do make impressive amounts of money. This doesn’t have much bearing on how much the average stripper makes though, which is the subject at hand. Once again, I do not believe there could possibly be many strippers making that much money, and I’d need more than anecdotes about high-end strippers or porn stars to change my mind. Am I reading too much into your diatribe, or do you have something personal against the industry and/or people that do this for a living? Because I’m really not inclined to go research adult-industry salary growth in order to appease you. I had an anecdote as told to me by several women who did this for a living. You seem disinclined to believe this, and I’m not sure I understand or care why. Again, have to fall back on the “no horse in this race” comment made earlier. You do not believe that women can make six-figure incomes stripping. I know several that do. And…scene. ---
**Author:** ![vix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a88e4f/32.png) [@vix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vix)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/64 "2004-11-08T19:49:12Z")
My sister is a starving actress/waitress in NYC, struggling to support herself and her abusive husband. If she dumped him and became a stripper, I’d be happy for her. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ba0ec/32.png) [@GrizzRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrizzRich)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/65 "2004-11-08T20:20:51Z")
Proud?.. no Ashamed?.. no I understand that the “family supports her decision”. But going to see her perform probably isn’t the best way of doing it. Heck, my family’s proud(?) of me being in the travel bidness… but they’ve never come to work to watch me. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/66 "2004-11-08T21:35:08Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > Am I reading too much into your diatribe, or do you have something personal against the industry and/or people that do this for a living? Oh, nice try, but I don’t think it’s going to work. What I have “something personal against” is people who make implausible, unsupported claims and then expect to be taken seriously without question. You’d have gotten exactly the same reaction from me if you’d said that many women work as waitresses because they want to “enjoy a six-figure income with a minimal educational background”. > [@](#): > > Because I’m really not inclined to go research adult-industry salary growth in order to appease you. Finding solid statistical information would probably be pretty difficult, especially since strippers are paid primarily in cash. However, it took only a few seconds with Google to turn up [The Stripper FAQ](http://www.stripper-faq.org/dance.htm) (no photos in link, but the main page has a photo of the webmistress in a thong that is probably not work safe), which seems legitimate enough. Among other information, it provides estimates as to the nightly earnings of strippers in different kinds of clubs. The webmistress is a retired professional stripper who is giving advice and encouragement to other women interested in that line of work, so I don’t think she’s making misleadingly low estimates when she says that strippers at “blue collar ‘titty bars’” make about $150 a night, with much better pay available at nicer establishments but $1500 a night being a possibility only for “a feature dancer whose [sic] done some magazine and movie work”. In [this section](http://www.stripper-faq.org/faq.htm) she also addresses the issue of house fees and what percentage of a stripper’s monthly income they can be expected to eat up. She bases the monthly income estimate on three nights per week, so I’m assuming that’s standard. So unless I’ve mangled my math (always a possibility), a stripper would need to be making close to $650 a night to clear six figures _before_ house fees and costume expenses, and according to the information on the site you’d have to be a successful, popular stripper at a nude club or “gown” club to make that much. It looks like less popular strippers at these places or anyone working at a lower-end establishment would be lucky if she cleared $30,000 before work-related expenses. That’s doesn’t sound too bad for three nights a week, but it’s nowhere near six figures. > [@](#): > > I had an anecdote as told to me by several women who did this for a living. You seem disinclined to believe this, and I’m not sure I understand or care why. It doesn’t matter whether I believe you or not, because your story isn’t meaningful even if it is both honest and accurate. You made a generalization about uneducated strippers pulling in six figure salaries, then attempted to support this with an anecdote about a few women at a particular club sometimes making $1500 a night. This doesn’t prove that _they_ made six figures a year, much less that the average stripper does. > [@](#): > > Again, have to fall back on the “no horse in this race” comment made earlier. You do not believe that women can make six-figure incomes stripping. I know several that do. I do not believe that it is common, and am skeptical as to whether it ever occurs outside of the most upscale clubs. The OP specified a “typical shabby bar”. You might personally know a few women who make a lot of money at a place that _isn’t_ a “typical shabby bar”, but that doesn’t have much bearing on what the run-of-the-mill stripper makes. ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/67 "2004-11-08T21:56:17Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Oh, nice try, but I don’t think it’s going to work. What I have “something personal against” is people who make implausible, unsupported claims and then expect to be taken seriously without question. You’d have gotten exactly the same reaction from me if you’d said that many women work as waitresses because they want to “enjoy a six-figure income with a minimal educational background”. For the record, I never attempted to bait you, and I’m sorry you seem to think I’m trying to back you into a corner over this. Let me reiterate so you can understand me: Some. Strippers. Make. Six. Figures. This may be the exception, but it happens, and for you to defy that…well, whatever. I really can’t even be bothered to argue with you about this. Go ahead and post one more time so you can feel like you got the better of me, okay? I’d hate for you to feel like you lost some SDMB street cred. ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/68 "2004-11-08T22:14:49Z")
Lamia: I would like to chime in that I got the same weird vibe that **Chastain86** picked up on. This is your quote: > [@Lamia](#): > > I don’t believe there can be many strippers making six figures. Actually, I’m skeptical as to whether there are **any** strippers making six figures. Bolding is mine. You are the one who made the statement that you had a hard time believing that **any** stripper makes six figures. People have chimed in that it is very much possible. The ‘any’ comment was what I was replying to. You backtracked and claimed that you were talking about the ‘average’ stripper. I am not reading anyone claiming that the average stripper is making six-figures, so argue with yourself if you’d like. > [@Lamia](#): > > Even that estimate wouldn’t give us a very accurate picture without knowing what their work-related expenses were (costumes, cab fare, bikini waxes) and whether they received any kind of benefit package or had to pay for all insurance, etc., out of pocket. Hedge your bet much? If we were talking about NY stockbrokers making a lot of money would you be deducting clothing cost, housing costs, cab fare to ‘prove’ they don’t really make that much money? ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/69 "2004-11-08T22:14:53Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > However, it took only a few seconds with Google to turn up [The Stripper FAQ](http://www.stripper-faq.org/dance.htm) That’s a pretty darn interesting website. (No, really.) ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/70 "2004-11-08T22:29:07Z")
Just as proud or ashamed as I would be if I found out that my brother visited a titty bar. Yes, I’m very unconfortable with the double standard in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/71 "2004-11-08T22:54:24Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > You are the one who made the statement that you had a hard time believing that **any** stripper makes six figures. You curiously chose to omit the third and last sentence of my first post in this thread, where I said: > [@Lamia](#): > > Maybe some of the fancy Las Vegas showgirls (maybe), but certainly not those “in your typical shabby bar environment” as described in the OP. However, even in the portion you did quote I merely said I was skeptical. You do know what “skeptical” means, don’t you? If I had meant “I am 100% certain that not one stripper in the entire history of stripping has ever had a gross income equal to or in excess of $100,000 annually” then that is what I would have said. I am no longer skeptical now that I have independently verified that it would be possible for a successful stripper to gross that much (and she needn’t even be in Vegas), but I still stand behind my initial statement that “I don’t believe there can be many strippers making six figures.” Indeed, I am far more confident in that belief now that I am possessed of more information as to how much strippers earn. > [@archmichael](#): > > You backtracked and claimed that you were talking about the ‘average’ stripper. I don’t think it’s backtracking if I said, in my very first post on the subject (I’ll requote myself since you seem to have a hard time with this sentence): > [@Lamia](#): > > Maybe some of the fancy Las Vegas showgirls (maybe), but certainly not those “in your typical shabby bar environment” as described in the OP. I’m not sure how much clearer I could possibly be as to context. > [@archmichael](#): > > Hedge your bet much? If we were talking about NY stockbrokers making a lot of money would you be deducting clothing cost, housing costs, cab fare to ‘prove’ they don’t really make that much money? Those are not mandatory working fees or out-of-pocket expenses for required job equipment. > [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > That’s a pretty darn interesting website. (No, really.) I thought it was too, actually. Seems like a helpful resource for anyone serious about stripping, and the webmistress gives some good advice about saving and managing money. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/72 "2004-11-08T22:57:05Z")
Visitors to such bars can’t have it both ways. If strippers are troubled, exploited girls, what does that make their customers? Their rescuers? :rolleyes: If the girls are immoral lowlife, what does that make the guys who pay to go see them? Oh, so it’s okay to be a immoral lowlife if you’re a _guy?_ :dubious: No. Customers to titty bars are guys who pay a professional for her services, in much the same way they would pay an actress (for making them feel romantic) or the hairdresser that touched their heads and chatted with them. If that’s okay, so is being a stripper. ---
**Author:** ![archmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@archmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/archmichael)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/73 "2004-11-09T00:12:39Z")
**Lamia** you are a hoot. “skeptical” The perfect hedge. If no contradictory information can be found, skeptical means, “See I told you so!”. If contradictory information is found, “I never said it couldn’t happen!” Luckily you can’t change the fact that you said initially > [@Lamia](#): > > I don’t believe there can be many strippers making six figures. Actually, I’m skeptical as to whether there are any strippers making six figures. Maybe some of the fancy Las Vegas showgirls (maybe), but certainly not those “in your typical shabby bar environment” as described in the OP. Only to change the ‘subject’ to > [@Lamia](#): > > This doesn’t have much bearing on how much the average stripper makes though, which is the subject at hand. I found this to be the gem: > [@Lamia](#): > > I am no longer skeptical now that I have independently verified… Independently verified. Anecdotes from me and **Chastain86** get response from you of: > [@Lamia](#): > > You made a generalization about uneducated strippers pulling in six figure salaries, then attempted to support this with an anecdote about a few women at a particular club sometimes making $1500 a night. But if a former stripper posts basically the same anecdote on the Web, claiming that strippers make upwards of $1,500 a night, THAT is Gospel I also like the final hedge: > [@Lamia](#): > > I don’t believe there can be many strippers making six figures. If we were to come up with concrete statistics that at least one or two girls in each club makes six-figures, and multipy that by all the clubs in the US, I would guess the definition of ‘many’ would change. Thanks for the mental exercise. Out ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/74 "2004-11-09T01:41:49Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > Which, y’know, says nothing about the woman that takes a job as a stripper to pay for college on her own, experience a sense of female empowerment, or simply to enjoy a six-figure income with a minimal educational background. Ok let’s stop right there. I also find it extremely difficult to believe that a significant number of strippers make anywhere close to six figures a dollar at a time. I ran the numbers awhile ago just for the hell of it and you have to have a lot of really great nights with not too many girls on shift to bring in that kind of money 1$ and $30 at a time. Maybe the top 1% of girls who work at places like Scores in NYC bring in that kind of money. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/75 "2004-11-09T01:52:38Z")
> [@archmichael](#): > > “skeptical” The perfect hedge. If no contradictory information can be found, skeptical means, “See I told you so!”. If contradictory information is found, “I never said it couldn’t happen!” Ah. So you really _don’t_ know what the word “skeptical” means. > [@](#): > > Luckily you can’t change the fact that you said initially > > > [@Lamia](#): > > > > I don’t believe there can be many strippers making six figures. Actually, I’m skeptical as to whether there are any strippers making six figures. Maybe some of the fancy Las Vegas showgirls (maybe), but certainly not those “in your typical shabby bar environment” as described in the OP. > > Only to change the ‘subject’ to > > > [@Lamia](#): > > > > This doesn’t have much bearing on how much the average stripper makes though, which is the subject at hand. That’s the _same_ subject, unless one is unwilling to accept the OP’s description of a “shabby club” as being “typical”. If anyone has challenged that so far, I missed it. > [@](#): > > But if a former stripper posts basically the same anecdote on the Web, claiming that strippers make upwards of $1,500 a night, THAT is Gospel She specifically said that _a feature dancer who had been in movies and magazines_ could make $1500 a night, presumably based on professional knowledge, which makes the claim rather different from yours or **Chastain86** ’s in terms of credibility. However, it does corroborate **Chastain86** ’s specific claim that it is possible for a stripper to make $1500 on a good night. I’m not sure why it upsets you so much that I bothered to provide a cite for something that _you_ agreed with and that contradicted _my_ previous skepticism on the subject. Next time I’ll try to remember to just make a “Cite?” one-liner and let other people find their own damn evidence. > [@](#): > > I also like the final hedge Since it was the very first thing I said, wouldn’t it be the _initial_ hedge? Or one might even choose to take it as my genuine opinion. > [@](#): > > If we were to come up with concrete statistics that at least one or two girls in each club makes six-figures, and multipy that by all the clubs in the US, I would guess the definition of ‘many’ would change. You sure wouldn’t be able to come up with those statistics in _this_ universe, so if we’re speculating an alternate world anyway then I suppose the word “many” might have some other meaning there. But in _this_ reality, I do devote some thought to composing my posts and choosing the proper word to express myself. I do this because I actually wish for people to be able to understand my meaning clearly. However, I am sometimes frustrated in my attempts by people who insist upon treating anyone who fails to instantly agree with them as dishonest both in the expression of their own opinions and in their use of the English language. I would begin to doubt myself if I didn’t frequently see this happen to others as well. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/76 "2004-11-09T01:56:42Z")
I wouldn’t be ashamed, but I would freak the fuck out and be extremely concerned. It’s so the complete and utter opposite of everything that my sister is that I know something would have to be seriously, seriously wrong. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/77 "2004-11-09T03:35:51Z")
Another thing to keep in mind is that in Chicago or NYC, 100k isn’t a great fortune. In our suburb the mean income for a High School teacher is 77k. A tiny starter home on a busy thoroughfare is at least 170k, with new luxury townhouses right along the railroad running $560k. Plus, anyway, how you make your living is at least as important as how much you earn. There may be some women for whom stripping is a fulfilling choice. Making a degrading choice because of the money involved is hellish. I haven’t stripped, but I have worked many demeaning jobs, so I do speak from experience there. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/78 "2004-11-09T14:05:09Z")
I’ve danced mostly in Indianapolis, and I do not know any strippers who make six figures. But, I do know that I was making a good $60,000 a year during college (1998), and probably a bit more than that in the years after. I know a lot of girls who have pissed away all their money, and I know girls who own their own homes, cars, boats, etc., and several who have put themselves through college. So, six figures isn’t impossible, but it’s probably not that common here in Indy. I would say the average stripper is not going to be happy with less than $200 a night. If you aren’t making at least that much a night, you should find a new job. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/79 "2004-11-09T14:14:42Z")
I have a dear friend whom I’ve known since the 2nd grade who decided to become a stripper, just because she wanted to, and although her family was not there, her friends came out en masse for her debut. We made a lot of friends among the other dancers, who thought it was so cool that we’d all come out to lend our support. Most of the comments we got were along the lines of, “_My_ friends don’t even know I do this!” I felt simultaneously arrogant (“I am such a good friend!”) and sad that other people had friends who were so unaccepting. Not that you have to show up with a fistful of dollar bills to show your support or be a good friend, but it was still sad that so many of the girls felt like they had to lie to their friends about how they made their living. In short, what **phouka** said. Proud, no. Supportive, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564/80 "2004-11-09T14:17:04Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Wants to be. No, has to be. In the case of “wants to be” the stripping is consensual, in the case of “has to be” the stripping is non-consensual, dictated by the financial equivalent of a gun to the head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-be-proud-if-your-sister-was-a-stripper/273564.md?page=5)