# Would You Betray Your Nation For Personal Reasons **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590 "2010-06-02T02:14:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/81 "2010-06-05T00:02:18Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I wouldn’t want the fragmenting of the nation just because it would cause widespread suffering in those fragmented areas. Not necessarily; such a process doesn’t require violence. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/82 "2010-06-05T00:04:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense. America is no barrier to China; and America is an enemy of democracy and always has been. People in a democracy after all just might vote that ways America disapproves of; we refer puppet dictators. I think you could be less absolute. I mean “always”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/83 "2010-06-05T00:26:09Z")
Only **Sith** speak in absolutes! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/84 "2010-06-05T00:30:39Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Only **Sith** speak in absolutes! I’ve been wondering about that line…shouldn’t it be “Mostly, it’s Sith who speak in absolutes!”? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/85 "2010-06-05T00:31:34Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > I’ve been wondering about that line…shouldn’t it be “Mostly, it’s Sith who speak in absolutes!”? Only **Sith** point out hypocrisy! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/86 "2010-06-05T05:40:46Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I think you could be less absolute. I mean “always”? :dubious: Look who’s talking. :rolleyes: **Curtis** , how many more of these stupid polls are you going to do? BTW, you never returned to your poll about swearing. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/87 "2010-06-05T12:41:06Z")
He doesn’t return to most of the nonsense he starts. It’s like he’s only thought up the one or two clever, (in his mind only), sentences of the OP. He’s not really engaged or invested, it seems, just sort of drive by crap throwing - to no end. Then again, he’s just a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/88 "2010-06-05T14:29:20Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > What if the politician would have created beneficial policies that would improve the nation in the long run? Versus saving the life of someone I love? Sorry, the nation will have to limp along without the benefits of a politician. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/89 "2010-06-05T14:56:26Z")
The only attachment i have to my nation is the fact that all my friends and family and my stuff happens to be there, as long as none of those are put in danger by my giving away of the secret then i would have no problem with it. I wouldn’t do something that would cause people to die though, no matter what nation they belong too. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/90 "2010-06-05T19:41:41Z")
I wanna go with **Oakminster**. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/91 "2010-06-05T23:19:03Z")
> [@Juliana](#): > > I wanna go with **Oakminster**. Just sayin. That…can be arranged. Assuming we find a qualified buyer for my treason, of course. 🆒😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590/92 "2010-06-06T03:21:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Imagine you’re a southerner in 1863 and your nation is the Confederacy, or that you’re a Loyalist in 1779 and your nation is the United States, or a German in 1943. In all of those cases I can see a case where I would. Exactly. This is why I refuse to say the Pledge of Allegiance. No matter how many people point out that it’s loyalty to the flag and the country, I know that the government will paint its actions in “Americanism” and the flag every time. I’m not swearing loyalty to some government of the future with unknown leaders doing unknown things. Do we value the draftees in the Nazi armies more, or people like Pope Benedict who just ditched the whole thing and went AWOL? (And I’m not Catholic, so save it.) I could definitely do something that was illegal in the espionage world. Just as an example, if you knew the US Army was about to do something like the massacre at May Lai, would you tell someone, even the enemy, who could stop it? I’m much more concerned with my moral decision process than staying loyal to one political state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-betray-your-nation-for-personal-reasons/541590.md?page=4)