# Would you call this woman a thief? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293 "2016-01-26T20:06:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mudshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mudshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mudshark)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/61 "2016-01-28T05:42:35Z")
She is a thief. I can’t blame her. I may have done the same thing, but she’s still a thief. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/62 "2016-01-28T05:47:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Not necessarily. > > I don’t believe Iris’s actions were justified. But to people who disagree, \*\*calling her a thief carries a degree if opprobrium that they’re not willing to make. \*\*I can understand that. Well, technically, committing theft makes one a thief. What other term would be used to refer to it? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/63 "2016-01-28T06:33:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Well, technically, committing theft makes one a thief. What other term would be used to refer to it? Are you a thief? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/64 "2016-01-28T06:52:57Z")
Thief, and unlike some posters, I am unsympathetic to her being one. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/65 "2016-01-28T07:37:33Z")
I consider it, barely, “justified thievery” due to extenuating circumstances. In my moral court of high crimes and misdemeanors, thievery is a spectrum crime, whereby the left extreme is an entitled rich brat stealing pocket change from a street bum and the right extreme is an extermination camp prisoner stealing bread crumbs from a Nazi guard for her starving child. Your hypothetical lady leans a little to the right of center. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/66 "2016-01-28T08:03:34Z")
Her sentence? She’s ordered to pay back the money to her victim…after kicking him in the nuts. ---
**Author:** ![CuriousYellow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3d9bf3/32.png) [@CuriousYellow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousYellow)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/67 "2016-01-28T12:03:13Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I prefer not to label people “thieves” because of one act they did. If she habitually steals things all her adult life, then I may reconsider but for the time being I’m not going to call her a thief. I’m kind of surprised really - has no one here on this board ever stolen anything at all? If so, when you think about yourself do you consider yourself a thief? Is that what you envision on your tombstone - “Here lies XXX Doper - a thief”. > > She commited an act of theft, yes. How many people do you have to kill to be a murderer? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/68 "2016-01-28T12:05:48Z")
> [@CuriousYellow](#): > > How many people do you have to kill to be a murderer? Poorly phrased question. Not every killing of a human being is murder. ---
**Author:** ![CuriousYellow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3d9bf3/32.png) [@CuriousYellow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousYellow)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/69 "2016-01-28T12:28:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Poorly phrased question. Not every killing of a human being is murder. Yeah, but I didn’t want to use murder and murderer in the same sentence. I should’ve known better. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/70 "2016-01-28T12:28:29Z")
[Theft by finding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding) So she’s a thief, but as noted a sympathetic one with an unsympathetic victim. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/71 "2016-01-28T14:55:43Z")
> [@CuriousYellow](#): > > How many people do you have to kill to be a murderer? How many people do you have to murder? I haven’t given it much thought. You can start a thread about that question if you so desire. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/72 "2016-01-28T16:06:11Z")
The surest way to know that she committed theft is the mental gymnastics presented in the scenario used to create a sympathetic victim/perpetrator. The facts of the case are very simple: woman sees man whom she knows and sees on a regular basis, which means that she had ample opportunity to return the money, drop a significant amount of money. Rather than return the money to the man whom she believes to be the rightful owner, she pockets the money and spends it. The sob story set up by the scenario is supposed to create a gray area but none of it makes any difference to the facts of the case. Stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family is still theft. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/73 "2016-01-28T16:13:26Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Her sentence? She’s ordered to pay back the money to her victim…after kicking him in the nuts. After all, he had it coming. :rolleyes: When we’re not excusing theft, we’re advocating violence. Also, rolling my eyes at the idea presented a few posts ago that taking someone’s money while they’re not looking is “heroic”. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have some mining shares to go and corner. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/74 "2016-01-28T16:13:49Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The surest way to know that she committed theft is the mental gymnastics presented in the scenario used to create a sympathetic victim/perpetrator. The facts of the case are very simple: woman sees man whom she knows and sees on a regular basis, which means that she had ample opportunity to return the money, drop a significant amount of money. Rather than return the money to the man whom she believes to be the rightful owner, she pockets the money and spends it. The sob story set up by the scenario is supposed to create a gray area but none of it makes any difference to the facts of the case. Stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family is still theft. There are no mental gymnastics in the OP. The OP gives no information abiut Iris’s thoughts, only her actions. And the person who wrote the OP has himself said what she did was unjustified and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/75 "2016-01-28T17:53:01Z")
> [@CuriousYellow](#): > > How many people do you have to kill to be a murderer? I think the difference from a practical standpoint is that labeling someone a murderer is almost always “useful” since there’s not really such a thing as minor or incidental murder. On the flip side, branding someone a thief because they once ate some crackers left laying out in the break room or didn’t report a tip or some other technical theft is less useful. If I was given the ability to review everyone’s life I’m sure I could find some moment where I could brand them a thief; very few would qualify as a murderer. So, since the label of “thief” isn’t especially useful if 99.9% of the population is carrying it, asking where the line is drawn is a valid question. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/76 "2016-01-28T18:44:29Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Yes. > > But, I’m okay with it. Agreed. He’s being a shitheel to her. I would have to defer to the legal eagles on our board about whether what he’s been doing crosses the line into either stalking or sexual harassment, but even if it does, there’s probably little chance that she can get the law to do anything about it. And even if it doesn’t, he’s gratuitously making her life miserable. I’d say that counts more than $200. So if he drops $200 and walks off the bus, and she picks it up, sure, it’s theft from a legal standpoint, but it’s karmic payback from mine. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/77 "2016-01-29T00:37:33Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > \ After all, he had it coming. :rolleyes: When we’re not excusing theft, we’re advocating violence.\ :rolleyes: Excusing theft? No, I advocated that Iris be ordered to pay back the money that she stole from Mr. Handsy, thus making him whole once again. However, you seem to have no concern whatsoever for \*this \*part of the hypothetical scenario: > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > \The third time he said that she must be a a dyke and should let him cure her, and that was the nicest thing he said to her from that point on. He seemed determined to make her cry; she succeeded only in not weeping in front of him. One day he got handsy enough to make her drop her cell phone, breaking it; and though it was only a $10 flip, that was a sawbuck she could ill afford. Another time he made her late for work, earning her a chewing out from her asshole boss. > \ So, she must pay back what she stole, but Mr. Handsy gets off scot-free? Why? Boys will be boys? She had it coming because…what?..because she’s a woman?? As per the hypothical, Mr. Handsy was clearly verbally harassing Iris and, if I’m correct in assuming, \*“he got handsy enough to make her drop her cell phone” \*means that he was \*groping \*her, then he \*physically \*assaulted her, too. So, as long as Mr. Gropie Handsy gets his money back (which he may \*not \*have recovered at all if Iris simply ignored his fallen money and someone else found it), and poor Iris remains less than whole from being verbally and physically assaulted, you’re ok with that? I’m not. A hypothetical _kick to the nuts_ does not hurt as much as a \*real \*kick to the nuts (he got "handsy with her; she gets footsy with him), so I think Mr. Handsy is getting off pretty easy with my hypothetical judicial sentencing guideline. I can think of a few other people who could use a a well-aimed hypothetical kick to the nuts, however. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/78 "2016-01-29T01:05:09Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > :rolleyes: > Excusing theft? No, I advocated that Iris be ordered to pay back the money that she stole from Mr. Handsy, thus making him whole once again. > > However, you seem to have no concern whatsoever for \*this \*part of the hypothetical scenario: > > So, she must pay back what she stole, but Mr. Handsy gets off scot-free? Why? Boys will be boys? She had it coming because…what?..because she’s a woman?? > > As per the hypothical, Mr. Handsy was clearly verbally harassing Iris and, if I’m correct in assuming, \*“he got handsy enough to make her drop her cell phone” \*means that he was \*groping \*her, then he \*physically \*assaulted her, too. > > So, as long as Mr. Gropie Handsy gets his money back (which he may \*not \*have recovered at all if Iris simply ignored his fallen money and someone else found it), and poor Iris remains less than whole from being verbally and physically assaulted, you’re ok with that? > > I’m not. > > A hypothetical _kick to the nuts_ does not hurt as much as a \*real \*kick to the nuts (he got "handsy with her; she gets footsy with him), so I think Mr. Handsy is getting off pretty easy with my hypothetical judicial sentencing guideline. > > I can think of a few other people who could use a a well-aimed hypothetical kick to the nuts, however. She’s well in her rights to defend herself of the assault committed against her including any amount of physical force required to stop the assault, have him arrested, or even sue Eddie in civil court. She is not entitled to rob him however. Just like if someone presents a real threat to your life you can shoot them but not search the body for any cash. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/79 "2016-01-29T03:31:00Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That’s true of all languages. In english, if you can’t express a concept, it’s because you don’t have the right word for it. There is, perhaps, a different expectation in languages that don’t have as many words as english does. (note for self-indulgent linguists: that is, languages that build up ideas, or inflect ideas, or yada yada yada) ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293/80 "2016-01-29T11:25:45Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > :rolleyes: > Excusing theft? No, I advocated that Iris be ordered to pay back the money that she stole from Mr. Handsy, thus making him whole once again. :rolleyes: backatcha, friend. I said that when “we” weren’t advocating the one thing, “we” were excusing the other - not to say that any one person was necessarily doing both. (Possibly someone was, but I’m not invested enough to check up.) > [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > However, you seem to have no concern whatsoever for \*this \*part of the hypothetical scenario: > > {snippage} > > So, she must pay back what she stole, but Mr. Handsy gets off scot-free? Why? Boys will be boys? She had it coming because…what?..because she’s a woman?? No. Nice strawman, if a little sophomoric, but I didn’t say one little thing to excuse Mr. Handsy > [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > As per the hypothical, Mr. Handsy was clearly verbally harassing Iris and, if I’m correct in assuming, \*“he got handsy enough to make her drop her cell phone” \*means that he was \*groping \*her, then he \*physically \*assaulted her, too. > > So, as long as Mr. Gropie Handsy gets his money back (which he may \*not \*have recovered at all if Iris simply ignored his fallen money and someone else found it), and poor Iris remains less than whole from being verbally and physically assaulted, you’re ok with that? > > I’m not. > > A hypothetical _kick to the nuts_ does not hurt as much as a \*real \*kick to the nuts (he got "handsy with her; she gets footsy with him), so I think Mr. Handsy is getting off pretty easy with my hypothetical judicial sentencing guideline. > > I can think of a few other people who could use a a well-aimed hypothetical kick to the nuts, however. If you’re in clear and present danger of physical harm then a kick to the nuts may be necessary and appropriate. In cold blood, because he was annoying, creepy, whatever, not so much. She might have decided to nut-punt him in self-defence, and you might excuse that in hot blood. Again, in cold blood, not so much. Should Mr Handsy get off scot-free? That wasn’t the hypothetical. If he’s harassed her to the point of being an actual criminal nuisance then there are, or should be, remedies both legal and social to cause him to mend his ways. The choices aren’t just “steal his money”, “kick him in the nuts” and “let him off scot-free”, and the only reason I didn’t say so earlier was that I assumed it was obvious. At this point I’ll leave you to your nut-punting fantasies, which you apparently enjoy although I’m forbidden to speculate in what manner, and the OP to his hypothetical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-call-this-woman-a-thief/744293.md?page=5)