# Would you care if Bush died? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989 "2006-09-16T20:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/41 "2006-09-17T03:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Did it ever occur to you that if the mess in Iraq does eventually stabilize (IMO, if the US finds the resolve to stay the course they started for the next 10 or 15 years instead of running away), and that that in turn helps stabilize the ME (as it would), that 40 or 50 years from now Bush will be seen as a very good president, maybe even a great one? [/QUOTE] No. Even ignoring all the other evil/crazy/stupid things he’s done, it’s not our right or our business to reshape the ME by mass murder. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/42 "2006-09-17T04:13:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Did it ever occur to you that if the mess in Iraq does eventually stabilize (IMO, if the US finds the resolve to stay the course they started for the next 10 or 15 years instead of running away), and that that in turn helps stabilize the ME (as it would), that 40 or 50 years from now Bush will be seen as a very good president, maybe even a great one? I don’t particularly care about Bush one way or another, and personally I’d grade how he’s handled the war at somewhere between “poor” and “fair”, but the thought of how the appeasement assholes, partisan cowards and lunatic lefties would react to that course of events fills me with joy and keeps me warm at night. It could happen. People hated Truman by the time he left office and fifty years later he’s remembered as a great president. So who knows? If Iraq gets straightened out, terrorism gets knocked down, tax cuts fix the economy, and New Orleans gets rebuilt, I’ll admit I misjudged George Bush and he was a great president after all. And because I want all those things to happen, I’ll be delighted to have been proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/43 "2006-09-17T04:21:09Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Besides, do you really think his death would make anything better, or even not worse? If he were assassinated (by the way, **alphaboi867** , much like in _The Wayans Bros._, there are two asses in “assassination”), he’d be martyred. If he died some other way, there’d _still_ be a bunch of bullshit about honouring his memory and supporting his legacy and yadda-yadda-yadda, as if the fact that policies were enacted by a dead man somehow legitimizes them. [/QUOTE] The alternative is that he dies doing something really, really stupid/embarresing, like autoerotic asphixiation. I doubt they’d make martyr out of him then. ---
**Author:** ![Moon\_Valley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Moon\_Valley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moon_Valley)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/44 "2006-09-17T04:51:27Z")
He has killed many more people than all the people currently on death row in all the states of the US combined. Granted, he didn’t personally kill them, but the illegal, immoral, unjustified war that he unleashed on Iraq was the direct cause of those deaths. That said, I don’t think he deserves to die. But that’s only because I don’t believe in capital punishment. I do believe that for justice to be served he should spend the rest of his life in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/45 "2006-09-17T05:22:33Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] So who knows? If Iraq gets straightened out, terrorism gets knocked down, tax cuts fix the economy, and New Orleans gets rebuilt, I’ll admit I misjudged George Bush and he was a great president after all. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t. None of that would change or justify the harm he’s done _now_. Suppose some medical company tortured and killed tens of thousands of people, men, women and children, in medical experiments. The result : A cure for a half dozen major diseases. Should they be hailed as heros, or punished ? Punished; the results of their actions _don’t matter_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/46 "2006-09-17T05:22:56Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Perhaps [drowned in a butt of malmsey](http://britannia.com/bios/lords/geoclarence.html)? “Where art thou, keeper? Give me a cup of wine.” “You shall have wine enough, my lord, anon.” _Richard III_ Act I, Scene 4. [/QUOTE] Hmmm. [_George_](http://www.islamfortoday.com/George_W_Bush.jpg); done in by [_Richard_](http://media.monstersandcritics.com/galleries/157556/00638657150.jpg), for the purposes of clearing Richard’s way to greater power… Yeesh, I hope Will Shakespeare’s middle name wasn’t Nostradamus… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/47 "2006-09-17T05:33:41Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Did it ever occur to you that if the mess in Iraq does eventually stabilize … that 40 or 50 years from now Bush will be seen as a very good president, maybe even a great one? [/QUOTE] And did it ever occur to _you_ that if Bush were to sprout giant leathery wings in public, in 40 or 50 years he will be remembered as a freakish man-bat? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/48 "2006-09-17T06:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Vietnam and the rest of the mess in Southeast Asia did eventually stabilize. Johnson is not, however, seen as “a very good President” in that arena, now, is he? No, friend, what it took for that situation to stabilize was for us to get out of it. Those who cannot remember the past, ya know. [/QUOTE] The irony is that Kennedy, who DID get us into Vietnam IS seen as a great president in some circles (probably by yourself in fact)…while Johnson who picked up the mess when Kennedy got wacked is seen as a poor president indeed. If Bush were assassinated at this point, I could very well see a similar scenerio unfolding. Its not as detached from reality as you and the pile on think, given the right kinds of circumstances. Just like 9/11 catapulted Bush into the heights of power in the US, making folks love or hate the man with unbelievable passion, while had there been no 9/11 Bush would have been a mediocre care taker president, probably a one termer, garnering neither wide spread support from the right nor particular rancor from the left but just sort of being there, Bush assassinated by terrorists at this point in history could have a similar effect, placing him in the upper reaches of past American presidents…instead of the lower tier he will surely inhabit if things play out naturally. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/49 "2006-09-17T06:08:58Z")
Good point, XT. If Bush were assassinated the person who’d really be screwed by history is Cheney. Bush’s reputation would probably end up below Kennedy’s, which would put Cheney’s reputation below Johnson’s. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/50 "2006-09-17T06:49:53Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Well hell, if we’re in Iraq for another 15 years, we might just as well make them a state. [/quote] Really? We were in Japan for about a decade after WWII, and we didn’t make them a state. We stayed long enough to stabilize, rebuild and to forge strong economic ties with them. We still have a presence in Korea, and by my calendar it’s been more than 50 years since the cease fire was signed. Unless you are trying to imply that the US has actual, real imperialistic designs on Iraq, I don’t see your point. [QUOTE=Frank] And, no, that wouldn’t make Bush a great president, though it might make a future president great. Y’know, one who fixed the problem Bush created. Jesus Christ, **Weirddave** , have you no fucking sense at all? [/QUOTE] I have plenty of sense, and IF, 50 years from now, a stable, more or less democratic Iraq is the cornerstone of a stable, more or less democratic ME, then Bush will be lauded for his role in that. [QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Oh, and despite your hypothetical going from stable Iraq = stable ME, an incredibly naive remark [/quote] How is it naive? I’ll let out the Palestinian situation for the moment, but let’s just suppose Iraq settles down into a stable, more or less democracy, one with Islamic overtones. The revolutionary forces in Iran are mostly young and pro-west. If their next door neighbor Iraq establishes a prosperous, free society, don’t you think that that will spill across the border? I sure do. Syria is a country that wants to walk big on the world stage, but lacks the ability to do so, they will go with the flow. Kuwait is economically tied to the west, they’re opportunists. Afghanistan is a mess, but they’ve been a mess for 1000 years. Rule of law is what is needed there, and like Iraq, establishing that is a process that will take decades, not years. Saudi Arabia is our friend, but they have a ruling house that is beset by Islamic fundamentalists. A general stabilization of the region will weaken these fundamentalists and hopefully allow the west to exert a moderating influence on the House of Saud. Jordan needs to embrace the Palestinians instead of using them for anti-Israeli purposes, and Lebanon is a blooming democracy that took a big hit from Israel lately because of their unwillingness/inability to control the terrorist group Hesbollah. This is a very simplistic summation of an amazingly complex reality. I know this, but I’m just trying to give you an idea as to how it might all fall together. It might all fall apart. We don’t know, but we have two choices: Try to make things fall our way or withdraw and let things fall against us. I’d much rather at least make the attempt to make things better. [QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] , and forgetting that Bush has done things in his presidency other than Iraq that can be disagreed with, and assuming that the course taken with Iraq is the best, perfect, cannot-be-beaten plan, and assuming that stabilization must be a good thing, I don’t think you’re an idiot. A partisan dick, perhaps. [/QUOTE] I agree with very few of the things Bush has done in his presidency. However, presidents tend to be remembered for their foreign policy initiatives, and, like I said, **IF** things fall right, that will be Bush’s legacy, as much as you might hate it. [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Vietnam and the rest of the mess in Southeast Asia did eventually stabilize. [/quote] Yes it did. And millions upon millions of people died before that happened. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DIED! Is that what you wish upon the middle east? [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Johnson is not, however, seen as “a very good President” in that arena, now, is he? :rolleyes: [/quote] I think Nixon is the president you’re looking to condemn here. [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] No, friend, what it took for that situation to stabilize was for us to _get out of it._ Those who cannot remember the past, ya know. [/QUOTE] Sure, you’re right. We could get out of it and ride out the consequences. Millions of dead folks, sky high oil prices, lots more terrorist attacks killing innocents in the EU and the US, maybe even the elimination of Israel. Who cares? It’s their problem, not ours. We’ll be OK, fat and satisfied on our side of the globe with only the random terrorist attack to worry about. Too bad, so sad, but most Americans will survive, right? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/51 "2006-09-17T07:43:04Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Really? We were in Japan for about a decade after WWII, and we didn’t make them a state. We stayed long enough to stabilize, rebuild and to forge strong economic ties with them. We still have a presence in Korea, and by my calendar it’s been more than 50 years since the cease fire was signed. Unless you are trying to imply that the US has actual, real imperialistic designs on Iraq, I don’t see your point. [/quote] Of course we have imperialist designs on Iraq; that’s why we invaded in the first place. Not that we would make them a state; that would give them too many rights to suit us. [QUOTE=Weirddave] I have plenty of sense, and IF, 50 years from now, a stable, more or less democratic Iraq is the cornerstone of a stable, more or less democratic ME, then Bush will be lauded for his role in that. [/quote] Unlikely; more likely history will say something like “Despite Bush’s attack on Iraq and the resulting chaos, in 2025 . . .” [QUOTE=Weirddave] How is it naive? I’ll let out the Palestinian situation for the moment, but let’s just suppose Iraq settles down into a stable, more or less democracy, one with Islamic overtones. [/quote] Then we will have a stable, democratic mortal enemy. [QUOTE=Weirddave] The revolutionary forces in Iran are mostly young and pro-west. If their next door neighbor Iraq establishes a prosperous, free society, don’t you think that that will spill across the border? [/quote] And if the Mindless Ones break into our universe in Iraq, that will spread over the border too. After what we’ve done, I judge either event about equally likely. [QUOTE=Weirddave] We don’t know, but we have two choices: Try to make things fall our way or withdraw and let things fall against us. I’d much rather at least make the attempt to make things better. [/quote] Except everything we do is pretty much guaranteed to make things worse, not better. [QUOTE=Weirddave] We could get out of it and ride out the consequences. Millions of dead folks, sky high oil prices, lots more terrorist attacks killing innocents in the EU and the US, maybe even the elimination of Israel. Who cares? It’s their problem, not ours. We’ll be OK, fat and satisfied on our side of the globe with only the random terrorist attack to worry about. Too bad, so sad, but most Americans will survive, right? [/QUOTE] And our behavior in Iraq makes this less likely how ? ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/52 "2006-09-17T08:26:22Z")
To all those who say they would be sad should Bush be assassinated (and I hasten to add that I would be very sad to see him die prematurely as I would like to give history time to pass it’s terrible judgement upon him) because it represents and attack on America - would it make any difference if he was assassinated by your average, off the street, American nutcase and not by some schemeing foreign power? Would you not feel so bad if his death wa snot an act of war? mm ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/53 "2006-09-17T10:33:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hung Mung] I’d much rather he live a long, dwindling life so that he can go through all the wonderful changes wrought by dementia and alzheimer’s. [/QUOTE] Changes? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/54 "2006-09-17T11:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=Hung Mung] I’d much rather he live a long, dwindling life so that he can go through all the wonderful changes wrought by dementia and alzheimer’s. For irony’s sake. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/55 "2006-09-17T11:24:31Z")
[QUOTE=mamboman] To all those who say they would be sad should Bush be assassinated (and I hasten to add that I would be very sad to see him die prematurely as I would like to give history time to pass it’s terrible judgement upon him) because it represents and attack on America - would it make any difference if he was assassinated by your average, off the street, American nutcase and not by some schemeing foreign power? Would you not feel so bad if his death wa snot an act of war? mm [/QUOTE] Either would be traumatic, but the act of war would be worse because of the current over-extension of our military (which is Mr. Bush’s fault, but that’s not the point here). Our forces would suffer badly. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/56 "2006-09-17T12:34:44Z")
His death would be satisfying but for a moment. What would be far better would be for him to live to a ripe old age, and with every passing year becoming more universally condemned as the worst president in American history. I want him to live to see a Supreme Court dominated by Democratic appointees, and also live to see the day where gay marriage is recognized in every state. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/57 "2006-09-17T12:51:05Z")
I think the prospect of his premature demise is too awful to think of. Pres. Cheney; military lashing out (if it be terrorism). Nightmare. I’d like to see him impeached and die in jail. ---
**Author:** ![MizGrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cdc98d/32.png) [@MizGrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MizGrand)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/58 "2006-09-17T13:25:56Z")
Nope, not one iota. Don’t like the man, personally. Now, if Clinton were to drop, I’d probably feel stunned and saddened. Can’t wait until he’s out of office. Recall! Recall! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/59 "2006-09-17T15:01:46Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] I think the prospect of his premature demise is too awful to think of. Pres. Cheney; military lashing out (if it be terrorism). Nightmare. I’d like to see him impeached and die in jail. [/QUOTE] I really can’t imagine the latter happening, and the former is also vastly unlikely. What has Mr. Bush done that merits imprisonment? Please don’t mistake my calm for actually approving of any of his policies. Except his no-more-nude-scenes-for-Jack-Nicholson policy. That’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989/60 "2006-09-17T15:28:07Z")
[QUOTE=mamboman] To all those who say they would be sad should Bush be assassinated (and I hasten to add that I would be very sad to see him die prematurely as I would like to give history time to pass it’s terrible judgement upon him) because it represents and attack on America - would it make any difference if he was assassinated by your average, off the street, American nutcase and not by some schemeing foreign power? Would you not feel so bad if his death wa snot an act of war? mm [/QUOTE] I’d be equally upset either way. The attack on the institution of the office of the president is as greivous an act whether it’s done by a home-grown or foreign assassin. To me, it would be kind of like finding out Oklahoma City was bombed by an American: not any “better” in terms of the effects of what happened or was intended to happen. KAYLASDAD – Cool thing with George and Richard; that hadn’t even crossed my mind. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-care-if-bush-died/372989.md?page=4)