Acid Lamp, I think WhyNot’s point was — certainly MINE was-- that there’s no point in talking about the evolutionary strategies of ther species (let alone genuses, families, or orders) in the context of a discussion like this one. Human ethics do not apply to seals, wolves, buffalo, or even chimpanzees. Moreover, our self-awareness allows us (I contend) to make decisions for reasons other than the pitiless prodding of gametes.
Fair enough. I interpreted the post in a more literal sense. 
I think that the ethical choice not to save though is still more in line with evolutionary principles though. Humans can reproduce at any time of the year, and if sufficiently motivated can have one child a year for several years. Makes more sense to have lots and provide what care you can rather than to trade your breeding potential for another that has none (currently).
The thing is, evolutionary principles have very little to do with ethics. For example, it’s a perfectly reasonable reproductive strategy for me to, when out of town on business, have sex with women I meet in bars; this gives me additional chances to sire progency. It’s just as reasonable for a man whose wife is discovered to be dying of ovarian cancer to abandon her in her illness and take a new wife; or for a young woman to marry an older, wealthy man but to cheat on him with the buff physics major who lives down the road and pass off the younger man’s children as her husbands. All those choices are, by my lights, unethical.
I may have worded it a bit strongly, but the logic is solid. As a parent, it is your job to protect your child from harm. If the kid doesn’t know how to stay out of the street, you physically keep him out. Walk on the inside, carry him, keep him on a leash if you have to. If a toddler runs into the street and gets hit by a bus, it’s the fault of the parents. I’m not gonna die to reward negligent parents.
If he’s old enough to know better, you’ve failed to instill appropriate behaviors into the child. Kids are told to look left-right-left for a good reason. So you can stop hovering around your kid to make sure he doesn’t die. If a teenager or pre-teen gets hit, it’s both the kid’s fault for making that mistake, and the parent’s fault for not rearing them correctly. Bad parenting and bad kid. Not dying for that.
Either way, someone made a huge mistake and it wasn’t me. I wouldn’t die to prevent a child from shooting himself when the parents leave their loaded gun cabinet unlocked. Not only is it not my responsibility, it rewards bad parenting.
I don’t have kids and I don’t even like kids but even I know this is complete bullshit. At some point, the child becomes wholly responsible for his own actions; unless you’ve been living with and observing the family and how the parents have raised the child, you cannot say with any certainty that the parent failed to instill proper behavior. Some kids are just willful, stubborn, stupid or any and all combinations of the above and no amount of teaching, cajoling or punishment is going to make them use good judgment.
Go right ahead. I’ve got no justification: It’s not exactly something I’m proud of, but it is the cold honest truth.
I’ll let others respond to this. I’m not objective enough.
Oh, nonsense. I wouldn’t save the kid, either, but people make mistakes. If a person gets distracted and forgets to look both ways before crossing the street, it is a serious mistake to be sure, but it does not imply bad parenting. People screw up occasionally. It sucks, but it doesn’t mean they weren’t raised correctly.
I really don’t think that a random child is inherently more valuable than I am, being as I’m at a stage where I can actively contribute to society and children can’t. I’d walk elsewhere. Sure, its parents would be devastated, but so would my parents, SO, friends, and classmates. Plus my parents would probably be on the hook for my student loans, and I don’t wish that on anyone.
I would have to avoid that street.
Im a single mom, of a four year old, with a job as a nurse. It is my instinct to protect and save others, particularly children. If I were to die saving that child I would not be there to raise my own son, and potentially save other lives by continuing with my career. And yes, I would probably feel sick about that decision for a very long time, and feel motivated to somehow do something in that child’s name…start a scholarship or a traffic safety program or something.
But I’d really, really really try to figure out how I could prevent that accident from happening.
I think I would sacrifice myself for the child. But I say that as someone with no children of my own - if I did have, I would feel bad about letting the other kid die, but I wouldn’t leave my kids without a mother.
If it were spur-of-the-moment, I know from (less dire) experience that I’ll most likely either do nothing or get out of harms way to save myself. I’d need the time to steel myself for it.
Although, I do believe (for myself at the very least, and my default assumption about others) that losing a child is the worst thing one can experience, and I wouldn’t want to do that to my parents *or *the kid’s. And I could see myself using that as an excuse to save myself and letting the kid die (in that case, I’d probably go to the street in question and try my best to prevent the kid’s death without causing my own). I’m not actually sure which one I’d pick. Here’s hoping I never find out.
And this feels a bit inappropriate to say right after admitting that there’s a good chance I’d let someone else’s kid die even if I knew I could prevent it (and I hope this doesn’t come across too badly), but Skald, I’m so very sorry for your loss. I wish I could offer you more than just words, but they’re all I have.
If I was given time to think about it, I’d avoid the street completely. If I couldn’t I still would not step in.
With no warning, from past experience, I unfortunately tend to try and save the kid. Against my better judgement, ethical position and all common sense.
I honestly don’t know what I’d do. Obviously it would be good if the child’s life were saved, but I have kids of my own - is it better for them to have a father who is a dead minor hero, or the living one they have now? And how would the balance of this equation weigh against the death or otherwise of Random Bus Child.
If I saw it happening right now, I hope I would act to try to save the child, whatever the consequences - It’s the whole planning and inevitability thing that makes it impossible for me to decide.
Seconded.
I wouldn’t save the kid - got one of my own to worry about.
Not sure I’d die to save my own, either, for that matter. I’m not evolution’s whipping boy to have my behaviour dictated. Plus, I can always have more kids.
Sorry, I don’t mean to make this an attack, but I love my kids and my wife enough to give up my life to save them. My kids are not a pet, a car or a house where you can just have another. These are my kids. I love them fiercely even when they drive me crazy at times. I cannot replace them. Yes, in theory we could have another child, but that child would not replace my lost child. I just don’t understand your final statement at all unless you not really love your child.
I just find your post very odd as a fellow father.
Jim
A child I don’t know? No. Kids I don’t know die every day and it doesn’t bother me in the least. So what if I could save one of them? Lots more would die that day anyway. Saving one wouldn’t make any difference. Me dying makes an enormous difference to my family.
Now, if you removed all the ridiculousness of the situation and asked, “If you saw a child you don’t know about to get hit by a bus would you try to save the child?”, I would answer “Yes”. But some mystical thing fucking with me will not get me to act. I would tell the mystical thing to fuck off.
Yes. Any child would at least have a chance to do something great with their life. Mine is pretty much over.
I think I’d have to avoid that street that day. Sorry, but that child is outside of my monkeysphere.
I, too don’t subscribe to the modern notion that every child on the planet is more valuable than every adult. A child is just a young, immature human - not all that special. Especially since there are 6.5 billion humans on the planet.
I would avoid the street entirely. I have zero parental instinct (which is largely why I’ve decided to never have children) so I have no answer for the ‘if it were your own child’ question.
I’m not really the self sacrificing type.