# Would you consider this SciFi scenario a form of rape? (TW) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2025, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506 "2025-11-02T19:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/21 "2025-11-09T14:13:21Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Can a male be raped? If so, in the case of a male does it require that male to be penetrated? Yes and Yes. At the federal level, rape is defined as “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim”. It was specifically reworded to that in 2012 to include males. Prior to that it was “the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will”, which seems like an oddly euphemistic way of writing a law. > **[Rape of males | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_males#United_States_2)** > > The FBI's Uniform Crime Report in 2012 redefined rape as: "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." The prior definition had not changed since 1927 and gained the attention of sexual assault awareness groups because it had alienated the victims who did not fit the definition – "the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will". The former d Thi... ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/22 "2025-11-09T14:29:18Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Sorry but… I do not understand what the (TW) in the title stands for. I hope it isn’t too obvious. I too had no idea what that was supposed to mean, I thought it meant **Truly weird** especially after reading the scenario about a gilled species laying eggs in a pond. Is it triggering or is it weird. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/23 "2025-11-09T14:55:39Z")
What if your species is like our fish species where the parents die post spawn? Having your only chance at leaving the desired offspring seems to up the offense considerably. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/24 "2025-11-09T14:56:03Z")
I would advise reading up on the mating behavior of African Cichlids. Mouth brooders, they care for their young quite a bit more than you are describing, but they choose their mates in crowded and competitive conditions. The males have several tricky methods of getting females to let them fertilize eggs. It’s quite fascinating. In your scenario I would expect both male and female to immediately turn tail and begin frantically sweeping the intruder’s milt away while the chosen male inseminates. There would be no way of knowing how many eggs ended up being his, but he wouldn’t just be motionless. As for the society, a lot depends on their overall mores. Are they a trickster-worshiping group that would revel in the derring-do? Or are the a staid, traditional society in which mating is considered something of a sacred ritual? You said a female chooses her mate, how are female rights treated in general? Has there ever been a female head of state? Is her choice considered to be absolute? If female choice is considered absolute, then I would say this is a crime worse than rape. Contrary to what has been said above, in terms of evolution, the formation and carrying of eggs is quite expensive. Trade-offs are made between carrying them longer, making them bigger or making more of them, fertilizing inside or outside of the body, and so on. Likewise the attraction of mates literally forms the bodies and behavior of males in most species. To allow trickster mating would mean upcoming changes in bodies and personalities and eventual speciation. I would think in a sentient fish species this would be the act of a psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/25 "2025-11-09T15:44:28Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I would say this is a crime worse than rape. I mean, traditionally, rape meant a women was spoiled and wouldn’t be able to marry a desirable man. So i think there’s a lot of overlap. I agree that it would be a serious crime. I just think that that species is different enough from us that the way they think about crime and transgressions in general would be very different from how we think about it. Take murder. We consider it a very serious crime to kill a child. But that species presumably has an enormous mortality rate of its larvae, and i doubt it would be considered a crime at all if an adult killed a few larvae going about it’s daily life. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/26 "2025-11-09T15:48:50Z")
Imagine that everything about your body and how your mind worked was centered on getting to do the chance to do one thing. All your life choices, all your behavior, everything, your entire existence was all about getting the chance to do this, and then somebody crept up and stole your chance. I suppose your answer does have validity if males mate hundreds of times in their lives. But the OP supposes that females choose their mates, so I think that’s unlikely. It seems like an honor to procreate for males. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/27 "2025-11-09T16:00:08Z")
It’s that an answer to me? I think it would likely be a very serious crime. I just don’t think it makes sense to call it “rape”. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/28 "2025-11-09T16:07:17Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I just don’t think it makes sense to call it “rape”. I agree with that. I thought you were arguing against my calling it “much worse” by the standards of that society. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/29 "2025-11-09T16:07:33Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > the females to actively attempt to recruit multiple males to each fertilise some their eggs In my scenario, there are, or can be, multiple males. The choice-thief is just explicitly not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/30 "2025-11-09T16:11:12Z")
OK, this actually phrases it better. When I said a _form of_ rape in the OP, I was angling for the question of whether this was still a _sex_ crime. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/31 "2025-11-09T16:56:15Z")
On thinking about it further, we’re positing that the aliens have something that we could consider a society, with laws and cultural mores and so on. But it’s hard to imagine how that could even exist in an R-selected species, and I think we need to figure that out before we can answer the question. It might be something like the Kreely, from Schlock Mercenary, for instance: Each mating produces many larvae, but the larvae don’t become fully sentient unless they’re exposed to certain key microbes at a certain stage of their life, and typically only a couple of larvae do so. Kreelies don’t particularly prize their pre-sentient offspring, and have no moral objection to selling them to other species as pets or food, but once they start becoming sentient, they’re as attached to them as we are to our young. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/32 "2025-11-09T17:17:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > we’re positing that the aliens have something that we could consider a society, with laws and cultural mores and so on. Yes, they do. > [@Chronos](#): > > the larvae don’t become fully sentient While they are definitely _sentient_, The juveniles here are also definitely not _sapient_ yet. My inspirations (besides salmon) were a combo of the Kreely, the Dwellers from Banks’ _The Algebraist_ and most especially the Lithians in Blish’s _A Case of Conscience_ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/33 "2025-11-09T18:29:52Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Imagine that everything about your body and how your mind worked was centered on getting to do the chance to do one thing. All your life choices, all your behavior, everything, your entire existence was all about getting the chance to do this, and then somebody crept up and stole your chance We don’t know that they get only one chance, though. Maybe they do this every year, and are long lived. And we don’t know how important reproducing is to individuals, or to these particular individuals — it varies quite a bit in humans. @MrDibble? I agree that it would be a crime, and a crime involving sex; but that it wouldn’t map neatly onto our crime of rape. I think they might have trouble really understanding what rape means to humans. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/34 "2025-11-09T18:33:33Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Maybe they do this every year, and are long lived. Ever seen the fit an American man throws if he’s forced to miss the SuperBowl? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/35 "2025-11-09T18:41:42Z")
They don’t do it every year, but it’s also not a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It’s as important to them as having kids is to humans. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/36 "2025-11-09T18:41:53Z")
No, actually. But we probably know different people. And these aren’t humans we’re talking about. Whether this is something they’d throw a fit about, and if so what sort of fit, seems to me to be what @MrDibble is trying to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/37 "2025-11-09T18:42:58Z")
They definitely _will_ throw a fit about it - it is some kind of violation of choice. It’s what kind of fit I’m not sure of. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/38 "2025-11-09T18:51:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s as important to them as having kids is to humans. In other words, crucially important to some, strongly avoided by a minority but by a significant number, and considered ‘well, if it happens, it happens’ by some others; but important enough to most for it to be protected by the society? Though it occurs to me that this seems separated from the other reasons humans have to have sex; so it seems to me there’d be quite a lot of societal difference. Presumably there’d be no equivalent of marriage or romantic relationships; or if there is, it’s not connected to the act of reproduction in anything like the way it is in humans. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/39 "2025-11-09T18:56:07Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Presumably there’d be no equivalent of marriage or romantic relationships; or if there is, it’s not connected to the act of reproduction in anything like the way it is in humans. I don’t see that. We’re told that females choose their partners. Why wouldn’t a female’s chosen partner be in a relationship with her equivalent to marriage? But if they’re like Kreelies, then they might not regard spawning as the act equivalent to how we view reproduction; they might reserve that status for the process of granting sapience. Pre-sapient young do have a value to them, but it’s a value that can be assigned a monetary value (as evidenced by the fact that they have no issue with selling pre-sapient young). So interfering with that stage of the process, in whatever way, might be only a property crime, not a personal crime. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506/40 "2025-11-09T19:00:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why wouldn’t a female’s chosen partner be in a relationship with her equivalent to marriage? To repeat - _multiple_ chosen male fertilizers, not one. If there’s a human equivalent, it would be polycules, because males will fertilize multiple females, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-consider-this-scifi-scenario-a-form-of-rape-tw/1024506.md?page=3)