# Would you "convict" God of existing? (i.e. as a jury member, does he exist beyond reasonable doubt?) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907 "2012-12-23T07:01:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/21 "2012-12-24T01:00:15Z")
If the standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt”, then of course the jury acquits because as is evident there’s lots of reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/22 "2012-12-24T02:32:41Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Not worth the effort. His lawyer will file a habeus corpus christi. We can nail the Trinity on a conspiracy charge, but the Son will only come back after three days, the Holy Ghost is a flight risk, and the Father can post any bond including the entire universe and still destroy it. And even if we get a conviction, since Son of Sam laws have been ruled unconstitutional, the Gideons will still be putting bibles everywhere. [NASA can handle it.](http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-completes-52year-mission-to-find-kill-god,19263/) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/23 "2012-12-24T02:59:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m not sure how to vote on your poll as is seems confusing, so I will respond on to how I would vote and you can let me know if that is a yes or no. > > 1 - I know God and I met Him, He exists, end of (that) discussion. > . Isn’t that a little arrogant? Even for a Christian? I think the better question would be (to use the OP’s odd phrasing): Would you convict God of NOT existing? AS noted; reasonable doubt and faith go hand in hand. However, you don’t need any faith to NOT believe in something. So I’d be currious how that poll would turn out compared to this one. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/24 "2012-12-24T03:55:03Z")
Doesn’t get past the Grand Jury due to lack of probable cause. Actually you wouldn’t even can a judge to sign to original warrant due to no PC. ---
**Author:** ![MybackPacksGotJets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MybackPacksGotJets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MybackPacksGotJets)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/25 "2012-12-24T10:28:29Z")
There will always be reasonable doubt because all reasonable people understand that to come to a completely correct conclusion every time we must have 100% of the information and have the wisdom to correctly interpret that information 100% of the time. Since no one has the information nor the wisdom required all our conclusions, are are open to being flawed. So it really depends on what your definition of reasonable doubt is. To me the first cause philosophy stands and that in itself is enough proof of God to put His existence beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately what is reasonable is riddled with our biases. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/26 "2012-12-24T15:15:10Z")
I am a theist, and though I do believe he exists, I voted no. That’s actually kind of the point, that his existence isn’t provable scientifically. That is, I believe that God’s manner of manipulating existence isn’t through super-natural means, as in reaching in and changing things, but rather through the initial set up state and laws, and so anything and everything is indistinguishable from natural law really only leaving the question of how did we get here. And, really, that wouldn’t be enough to be beyond a reasonable doubt. And, for the record, if the question were reversed and he were being charged with not existing, I would also answer no. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/27 "2012-12-24T15:27:07Z")
Atheist. No. But it would be cool serving on a jury of his peers. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/28 "2012-12-24T16:56:11Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > The question is \*\*not \*\*the same as asking if you believe God exists beyond reasonable doubt. > > The question is if you think a court case were held where there was a “prosecution”, making the best possible argument for his existence, and a “defence”, making the best possible argument for his non-existence (I don’t think they would make him take the stand) then imagining their likely arguments, and making your judgement purely on what they were rather than your own opinion, would you find him to exist beyond reasonable doubt? How the hell would anyone know? We haven’t heard this defense or prosecution. My guess is that I wouldn’t, since I’ve read a lot of arguments for the existence of God, many by very smart people (Aquinas, Lewis, Polkinghorne, etc), and I find them lacking. But maybe the prosecutor has some incredible argument and evidence I’ve never seen before. How would I know? ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/29 "2012-12-24T17:31:25Z")
This is sort of like having a jury full of eye witnesses, character witnesses, and testimonial experts. You might be able to argue God from philosophy or personal experience, but there is currently no physically verifiable evidence, and that’s the kind of evidence I’d need to “convict”. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/30 "2012-12-24T17:34:05Z")
IANAL but it seems that in a court at Common Law, you could not even muster up clear and convincing evidence, never mind beyond reasonable doubt. All you’d have is some witness testimony and a lot of hearsay and speculation, with the witnesses’ testimony being mostly based on subjective experience and interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/31 "2012-12-26T17:03:04Z")
You seem confused as to what an atheïst/agnostic IS. You can’t be a atheist and believe in god, in fact the essential part of the job description is you have to deny her existence. You can’t be agnostic and have an opinion on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![MybackPacksGotJets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MybackPacksGotJets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MybackPacksGotJets)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907/32 "2012-12-27T01:00:40Z")
^ [Agnosticism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic#Types_of_agnosticism) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-convict-god-of-existing-i-e-as-a-jury-member-does-he-exist-beyond-reasonable-doubt/644907.md?page=1)