# Would you cross a supermarket picket line as a customer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712 "2013-10-20T05:46:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/141 "2013-10-23T15:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Well spoken. The solution to greedy behaviour on the part of unions is that they need to be fired when they go on strike. So you think that maybe workers who remove themselves from a place of danger due to low staffing levels should remain at their posts? The staffing levels within my workplace are critical to ensuring the continued safety of staff and their charges, in some of those places we are talking of children, mentally ill, and very high percentage of those with social personality disorders.(I represent members in a variety of workplaces across a region with different categories of detainees) You may be surprised to find that as a Trade Union rep I can find much to agree with in your sentiment. There are conniving greedy lazy individuals who group together, and it is still the part of management to deal with it. Any honest worker resents the idea of the idle getting the same benefits as themselves but ineffectual management often tries to go for the soft option of appeasement, which rarely works and more usually causes long term disharmony. Why should good workers put themselves to great effort if the indolent receive the same rewards, and where managers make arbitrary decisions that do not take into account performance? The fact is, management of any organisation should seek to make best use of resources, and this includes the skills, minds and motivation of their workforce. If the lazy or incompetent need to be removed, then management should competently do so by using their own policies in a fair and transparent manner, rather than just play the blame game. In the UK there is still very much a class and social divide between workers and managers, I have seen good productive ideas dismissed by idiot managers simply because of the source of the idea rather than the viability - its happened to me several times - so now I just go about my task - if that sounds hugely discouraging, you will not be amazed to find that it is, I am better trained, educated and have worked longer in my field than most of my managers, not only that, I have probably had more dealings with the problems regarding contract and employment management than almost all of them due to my trade union role representing members, but if managers are not sensible enough to actively encourage staff development, tell me why I would push harder in order to be ignored? I guess a question you might come up with is, why haven’t I put myself up for a management post, well the discriminatory recruitment and promotion policy in my agency ensures union reps will rarely make progress, why don’t I leave? - too many years toward my pension to leave, I literally have months, perhaps a year to go. My annoyance with our hierarchy is that it is pretty obvious how performance could be improved, it isn’t even all that innovative given that much of it is actually in the HR policies and all the managers need do is to simply read them. Few of my managers have gone to night school to further their education, most of them are unskilled in terms of trades and most of them do not read their own company HR policies, and you can apply that right across the public sector. I have also come across extremely good managers, who see themselves as providers of enablement to their staff, and who do listen, evaluate ideas without dismissing them out of hand. Even if a proposal is impractical it still reveals an active mind in the workforce and that alone is worth encouragement. Those good managers also run into HR issues but I find that when it comes to personal cases, they will have everything lined up correctly and the miscreant will be either disciplined or dismissed, and my only role as a rep is to inform staff of how the process is going to work. In a number of public sector organisations in the UK, we have bonus and incentive systems, Trade Union analysis of the frequency and size of payouts reveals that almost no person under a management grade gets such a bonus, and no black or female member or person under age 26 have received one, its the classic middle aged white male syndrome. It is not my role to suggest the names of errant workers who ought to leave the agency, but I am pretty damn sure that those staff who are unfairly singled out by poor management are supported. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/142 "2013-10-23T16:28:38Z")
I support their right to organize and strike. I like unions. But frankly, I drove all the way to the grocery store. I need food and I already made a decision to buy it from this store. I’m going in. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/143 "2013-10-23T17:06:48Z")
I worked at a union grocery store. It was easily the worst job I ever had. I got paid minimum wage, the hours were terrible, and despite working part time, I still had to pay full union dues. Sometimes, there were weeks were I had so few hours, that I didn’t get a paycheck. Instead I got a green slip saying they took union dues out, and I stilled owed some. So I would cross the picket line with glee. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/144 "2013-10-23T18:48:09Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I don’t rightly know…but I suppose they might have blocked me, or restrained me, or at least jeered me…but I had legitimate business there. I grew up learning to respect what my parents told me about unions and picket lines. And I refused to seek employment as a scab. In my view, they have every right to jeer you – but the moment they block you or restrain you, they’ve committed a crime. ---
**Author:** ![UnPossible1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dc4da7/32.png) [@UnPossible1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnPossible1)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/145 "2013-10-23T19:25:38Z")
I despise unions and I would go out of my way to cross a picket line. A few years ago, my home was picketed by union thugs when I chose a non-union contractor to replace my asphalt drive way. The best part was that I was replacing a driveway that was less than 12 months old that now had a significant sink hole and was falling apart. This driveway had been installed by the only union contractor (hired by the home builder)in the area, and they would not stand behind their shoddy work …. So I got picketed for not wanting to pay a premium to use the “union” contractor that had just done a horrible job and would not warranty their own crappy work for the replacement. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/146 "2013-10-23T19:37:55Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > So you think that maybe workers who remove themselves from a place of danger due to low staffing levels should remain at their posts? No, I think what I said. That’s why I said it. > [@](#): > > You may be surprised to find that as a Trade Union rep I can find much to agree with in your sentiment. There are conniving greedy lazy individuals who group together, and it is still the part of management to deal with it. Yes indeed. Sometimes those groups are called “unions”, and it is the job of management to get rid of the unions made up of such people. I am glad to see that we are in agreement. Management has every right to fire a worker who goes on strike. Indeed, it is their duty, and you support them for doing so in the interests of a more effective work force. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/147 "2013-10-23T19:44:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In my view, they have every right to jeer you – but the moment they block you or restrain you, they’ve committed a crime. I suppose them doing that just seems counter productive to me. Maybe I’m crossing the picket line because I don’t know any better, or maybe I need my prescription, or maybe I don’t have any other option for where to shop. I guess I’m saying: maybe walking in, I’m neutral or even favorable to the union. Bullying me in that scenario is going to quickly make me have some pretty bad feelings about the union. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/148 "2013-10-23T20:15:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Unless the strike is over something discriminatory, I won’t cross a picket line. > > Solidarity! This sums up my thoughts precisely. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/149 "2013-10-23T20:20:07Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Unless the strike is over something discriminatory, I won’t cross a picket line. > > Solidarity! Would you still consider it “solidarity” if they go to a tiered agreement where future workers get a contract that is worse that current workers get? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/150 "2013-10-23T21:13:10Z")
Former grocery employee here. Only way I’d cross a picket line is if I’m out of something that I can’t find anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/151 "2013-10-23T22:27:42Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Any honest worker resents the idea of the idle getting the same benefits as themselves but ineffectual management often tries to go for the soft option of appeasement, which rarely works and more usually causes long term disharmony. Why should good workers put themselves to great effort if the indolent receive the same rewards, and where managers make arbitrary decisions that do not take into account performance? And yet union’s base rewards on seniority instead of performance. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/152 "2013-10-24T00:17:11Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > And if management isn’t allowed to fire poorly performing workers because of union rules, then what? I’m a union member and management can definitely fire poorly performing workers. They need to document the poor performance (thanks union!), but poorly performing workers have been fired. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/153 "2013-10-24T18:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > And yet union’s base rewards on seniority instead of performance Not here, the only reason that staff do not make it to the top of their grade in employment year one is that it benefits the employer far more - each year you are on the way up your pay scale is another year you are not being paid the full rate for the job. The position of unions is simple, the rate for the job is the rate for the job, not some interminably long incremental pay scheme. I have never ever come across any incentive scheme that rewards high performers in the lower reaches of the workforce by moving them up the pay scale faster, yet this seems the norm for senior management, why do you suppose that is? This is one of the reasons I harp on about poor management not having vision to encourage performance - if you do a mediocre job, you will move up the scale at exactly the same rate as a high performer. Workers are not aiming to lose money or security of employment when they strike, which is a last resort. The balance of power is such that workers always have the odds against them anyway. I am waiting for some rebuttal of my assertions about poor management practice, I am surprised that there has not been more criticism of the one that states there are no bad workers, just bad managers. How about most industrial relations problems are caused by poor management? **Shakes** > [@](#): > > Same goes for these labour laws, studies have shown that the 40hr work week is just the right amount of time to get the most out of your employees. Mess with that and you’re going to have to deal with costly mistakes. Including, a rise in safety incidences which is also costly to the bottom line. I rather disagree there, and the reason is dead simple, if this were the case, then Koreans, Chinese, Bangladeshi, etc. would be working 40 hour weeks but they do not. Those studies are simply confirmation bias, do you seriously believe that such studies played any scintilla of a part in getting a 40 hour working week? Do you imagine that the gradgrinders of this world suddenly had a burst of the total morals and reduced the working week because some academic said so? Thought not, so lets put this red herring back in the barrel. I have seen mention of Union Dues, in the UK these are almost always under 20 per month(mine are £11 per month - whatever that is in ) and most are graduated up to that level dependant upon income. I have no idea how much US union dues are levied. **Bricker** > [@](#): > > I would cross a picket line, because I don’t want anyone else’s help in negotiating my salary and benefits. If i don’t like my job, I quit and find a new one. If I want a raise, I ask for it; if i don’t get it, then I see what else others might be paying. I would be ashamed to ask other people to pressure my employer on my behalf by withholding business. > > So i won’t join in someone else’s “negotiation” that involves not simply withholding your own services --a perfectly acceptable tactic – but asking other unrelated people to join you. I wouldn’t be the striker; I won’t be the strike supporter. I am assuming from your other posts that in your profession there is a very different power dynamic and that you are in a knowledge based industry where high value is placed on this, along with work ethic and this allows you far more scope for negotiating compensation, this is not the case for the majority of workers, heck, even walking away and seeking alternative employment is frequently not an option. The reality is that my experience of union work is that every issue is assessed on the value and likelihood of success, there have been many occasions when I have advised against a walkout ballot even though there was a valid case, simply because the cost was not worth the effort or the likelihood of success was remote, along with reporting back to the national officials that such action would be unlikely to be supported. You have to be honest with yourself, sometimes pragmatic and always realistic. We do not have closed shops here, we do not have show of hands ballots, for all her many faults Maggie Thatcher certainly cut out the worst of union excesses. When a union does call out for industrial action, you need to realise just who the union is, it is not some bunch of officials in a workers paradise office - the members have voted for it, and they will only do so if there is a sense of grievance. Staff are not going to lose money for fun, if they see no real prospects, or if it jeopardises the company - there is really no point to that, now is there? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712/154 "2013-10-26T05:29:50Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bullying? Socially shunning a coworker for a betrayal is to be expected. You know what management does if you betray them in their eyes? Anything they want, up to and including firing. In case you haven’t noticed, management pays the employees. Unions take your pay. There is no apples-to-apples in your scenario. Double cross the people who pay you, and there is no reason for them to pay you. In unions, a worker can pay and pay, and strike and strike, and the benefits accrue to union management (who take the pay of the worker). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-cross-a-supermarket-picket-line-as-a-customer/671712.md?page=7)