# Would you date someone who couldn't be 100% independent? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035 "2015-10-09T15:17:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/21 "2015-10-10T00:52:48Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > Not driving is a disability now? > > I don’t know how to drive. I can afford pretty much unlimited taxi rides so I don’t know how that is a problem. > > And most people don’t farm. They buy food. Most people don’t sew. They buy clothes. Etc. We all depend on other people in ways big and small. Yes, not being able to drive is a disability in the vast majority of the U.S. I try to depend on other people as little as possible but, when I am forced to, I make sure they are well compensated for their efforts and I expect others to do the same and not in a causal “might help you out someday” barter kind of bullshit way. I realize that is an unusual view but it makes life amazingly straightforward and simple. I treat everyone like that and I am certainly not going to deviate from it for a girlfriend. My true views are even more extreme than that for romantic relationships but I will spare you the full working theory (complete with math and charts) unless you are really interested. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/22 "2015-10-10T01:14:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There are some of us out here who are willing and able to look past the wheelchair. We also tend to get taken rather quickly, and there aren’t a lot of us. I imagine it does make things more difficult. Yes, online dating improved my dating life _immensely_ however. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/23 "2015-10-10T01:28:15Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Yes, not being able to drive is a disability in the vast majority of the U.S. That’s hilarious. I would like to see someone try to get disability accommodations for not driving. > [@](#): > > I try to depend on other people as little as possible but, when I am forced to, I make sure they are well compensated for their efforts and I expect others to do the same and not in a causal “might help you out someday” barter kind of bullshit way. Is your backyard filled with food crops? Do you sew your own clothes? I’m sure it’s possible for you to do those things, and build furniture yourself, cook all your own meals, etc, but you probably don’t. So you don’t depend on other people as little as _possible_, but rather, as little as you _choose_. As do most people including those who don’t drive. And why would you think that a person who doesn’t drive is somehow unwilling to compensate others? If I need to go someplace I call a cab. I can easily afford cab rides. It’s a no brainer to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/24 "2015-10-10T01:33:36Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Yes, not being able to drive is a disability in the vast majority of the U.S. Not being able to drive is a **result** of a disability, not a **reason** in and of itself. That’s silly, really. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/25 "2015-10-10T01:40:57Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Not being able to drive is a **result** of a disability, not a **reason** in and of itself. That’s silly, really. Not necessarily the result of a disability either. Sometimes it’s just a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/26 "2015-10-10T01:53:21Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > That’s hilarious. I would like to see someone try to get disability accommodations for not driving. > > Is your backyard filled with food crops? Do you sew your own clothes? I’m sure it’s possible for you to do those things, and build furniture yourself, cook all your own meals, etc, but you probably don’t. So you don’t depend on other people as little as _possible_, but rather, as little as you _choose_. As do most people including those who don’t drive. I am not trying to be insulting but yes, it is a true disability in the vast majority of the U.S. by definition. It is the lack of ability to perform a common skill and that is the core definition of ‘disability’. That may not be a problem if you want to life your life on Manhattan but is a very real issue if you or your partner ever want to venture outside of a very few rare urban confines. The second point is nonsensical. I exchange the services that I perform for those of others in the form of money. That is called an economy and either side is free to set whatever terms they want. That form of exchange is much more straightforward than most romantic relationships today but it was the norm when marriage first developed. Romantic marriages are a rather modern invention probably because they hardly ever work. The original version that lasted throughout most of human history was designed to join families and wealth and love wasn’t even a consideration. If all this sounds like I am an asshole, that is probably true but not for that reason. I am a realist on this subject. I will help people in extreme need and have done so even to the point of saving several lives directly in my life. My entire job is to help people in extreme trouble but I get paid well for that. I have no interest in taking on a charity case for supposed romantic reasons that will almost certainly cause me more harm than good. I have two young daughters that are infinitely more important to me than any girlfriend or wife could ever be. The latter are fun diversions as long as they play nicely but, in the end, they are just expendable commodities. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/27 "2015-10-10T01:56:45Z")
There must be a _reason_ why someone is unable to drive and that reason determines whether that inability stems from a disability or some other reason (such as never learning). ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/28 "2015-10-10T04:28:00Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever dated someone without a mental illness. So, yes. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/29 "2015-10-10T06:30:48Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am not trying to be insulting but yes, it is a true disability in the vast majority of the U.S. by definition. It is the lack of ability to perform a common skill and that is the core definition of ‘disability’. That may not be a problem if you want to life your life on Manhattan but is a very real issue if you or your partner ever want to venture outside of a very few rare urban confines. So is the inability to cook or clean or type a disability too? > [@](#): > > The second point is nonsensical. I exchange the services that I perform for those of others in the form of money. That is called an economy and either side is free to set whatever terms they want. And somehow transportation services are excluded from the economy? Do you not know about the existence of taxis, uber, and private chauffeurs? As for the rest, it seems that you … have issues. Maybe some counseling would help? If not for yourself, maybe to help you be a better role model for your daughters? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/30 "2015-10-10T06:34:22Z")
> [@Brodi](#): > > Has trouble with reading comprehension and so might need help making since of something? > Can’t do basic math and so might need help with measuring, making change, etc? > Visual, auditory or sensory issues that might make it hard for them to navigate the world? ie: Autism, Sensory Integration Disorder, etc. … man, if dislexia was a reason not to hang around or have any other kind of relationship with someone I’d have to stop hanging out with my brother… The same brother who’s been known to get mad when I did some mental arithmetic quicker than he did. And one of the symptoms of my “it’s not MS” is that I get sensory disintegration: words don’t make sense unless I think about them, corners don’t meet (my brain knows they do, my eyes don’t see it). I kind of like myself most of the time and I refuse to stop talking to myself! Are there disabilities or illnesses I’d have problems with? Yeah, sure. But I’m picky enough without requiring a perfect bill of health. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/31 "2015-10-11T02:39:17Z")
> [@BrightSunshine](#): > > Not driving is a disability now? > > I don’t know how to drive. I can afford pretty much unlimited taxi rides so I don’t know how that is a problem. Not driving isn’t a disability. But not driving can have the same effect on the partner as a disability. I’m sure it’s not true for you- but let me introduce you to my sister. She has a license- but literally hasn’t driven since her road test.\* She lives in NYC, possibly the best city in the world to live as a non-driver , but doesn’t want to live the life of a non-driver. She wants to get her haircut at a particular place that’s not convenient to her home by public transit. She wants to go to the main branch of the library rather than the one in walking distance. So her husband has turned into her chauffeur. Well, she’s just a bitch , you say. I wouldn’t disagree, but I’ve seen the same thing with relatives who live in the burbs- where there really isn’t any public transportation and there aren’t as many cabs as here and things are more spread out. It’s one thing to not drive but be able and willing to get around on your own and another if you either can’t or won’t get around on your own. It’s actually kind of like a wheelchair - the wheelchair all by itself doesn’t tell you how independent someone is able and willing to be and neither does the non-driving. Some who use wheelchairs are very independent, while others need someone to transfer them from the bed to the chair, from the chair to the toilet and back , from the chair to the couch, to dress them, bathe them, prepare their food and transfer them back to the bed at the end of the day. If I were trying to decide whether to get involved with someone with a disability, it’s the effect on me that would matter. I guess on some level, the things I might encounter in a non-disabled person are fine. Doesn’t read so well- not a problem, whether it’s due to a disability or lack of practice. Not so good at math- as long as they get approximately the right amount of change at the store, also fine. And the things that don’t have much of an effect on me are fine. But there are certain things that will never have to be done for a non-disabled person on a permanent basis - and those would be dealbreakers for me. - She only got the license because she wanted a government job involving field work which required a license. She’s never actually had to drive for work because again, NYC and public transit. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/32 "2015-10-11T02:45:26Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The latter are fun diversions as long as they play nicely but, in the end, they are just expendable commodities. You must write a GREAT Valentine’s Day card. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/33 "2015-10-11T03:12:57Z")
I would consider not being to drive a “special need.” We all have our needs that must be accommodated. But a special need requires above-average accommodation. An allergy to a common food item is another special need. As are chronic health conditions, like diabetes or epilepsy. I think being unable to drive is a major special need. It pretty much means you will always have to live somewhere with a high level of access to public transit, which could mean making a lot of career and housing compromises. I don’t know if it would be a deal-breaker for me, but I certainly understand why it would be for someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/34 "2015-10-11T03:33:06Z")
In regards to the not driving, that is fine if you are in a city like NYC or San Francisco. I live in DFw. If someone was living near the airport, for example, it could cost over 75.00 in taxi fees each way. I can’t see that being s financially sound choice. That would mean I would have to drive 45 minutes to an hour each way to pick them up? That’s not happening. When I read the title of this thread, I was thinking independent (as opposed to a co-dependent person that is fine physically). I am far more open to being with someone because of something they physically can’t do as opposed to someone that simply won’t do something or is always glued to my side. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/35 "2015-10-11T04:17:31Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You must write a GREAT Valentine’s Day card. Nobody ever accused me of being overly romantic but I am very loving to my biological family, first and foremost, my kids. They are always top priority but I am also kind to others as well. I have known you on this board since you were a ‘pinko commie’ teenager. We may not agree about much politically but I am still a huge fan. Anyone that lives in foreign countries just for the hell of it is interesting to me. I really want to do that too. I am holding out for another adventure seeker of your style but even one of those can’t ever take top priority. If you told me you really needed $10,000 tonight for some urgent need, I would probably find a way to get it to you because you are trustworthy. The same isn’t true for the vast majority of the people on the singles scene. It is quite expensive to get the decent ones and they always introduce other complications into it. Most of them take a whole lot more than they give. I have almost given up, not because I can’t get good ones but because there is no end game. I just need event partners and that is it. They aren’t ever going to interfere with work or time with my kids so there is 98& of my time gone right there. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/36 "2015-10-11T08:01:48Z")
Well, I’m flattered. I’m just ribbing you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TheSpeculationElucidation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@TheSpeculationElucidation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSpeculationElucidation)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/37 "2015-10-11T08:02:51Z")
Developmental disabilities: No Physical disabilities: Yes Physical disabilities do not matter to me when seeking potential partners. One of my long term (ex)girlfriends has cerebral palsy. She has poor coordination, weak muscles, and sometimes they will seize up. It’s incredibly painful from what I understand. Her speech, vision, etc were not affected - it was mostly in her legs and she had leg braces to assist her in walking. We couldn’t go on long hikes or do anything strenuous, but other than that it didn’t affect our relationship. There were a few occasions where I had to carry her from room to room, or I had to care for her - but it was worth it to me. One of my long term (ex)boyfriends has Erythromelalgia, which is a rare and frequently devastating disorder that typically affects the skin of the feet or hands, or both, and causes visible redness, intense heat and burning pain. It basically feels like your extremities are on fire, all the time. There is no cure, and most who have it are considered permanently disabled. He managed it, but the summer months were incapacitating (heat makes it worse). It only affected us in the sense that I hated seeing him in such pain and felt helpless to stop it. That being said: I am a caregiver for adults with developmental disabilities. I could never imagine being comfortable dating someone who has a DD. Absolutely not. There is a simplicity in adults with developmental disabilities that causes a caregiving response in me; the thought of anything more is VERY uncomfortable to me. There are obviously varying levels of developmental disabilities, but I cannot imagine a situation where I’d ever be even remotely attracted to someone with a DD. * * * As for the article - Most of my clients are dating someone - all of whom have a developmental disability. I don’t know how far their relationships go (none of them live together or are married, and none have done more than hold hands or pat their partner’s butt in my presence), but many of them have been together for 20+ years. I think that, for many of them, sexual attraction isn’t part of the equation. That being said - everyone deserves and recognizes the importance of love. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/38 "2015-10-11T12:39:26Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Not driving isn’t a disability. But not driving can have the same effect on the partner as a disability. I’m sure it’s not true for you- but let me introduce you to my sister. She has a license- but literally hasn’t driven since her road test.\* She lives in NYC, possibly the best city in the world to live as a non-driver , but doesn’t want to live the life of a non-driver. She wants to get her haircut at a particular place that’s not convenient to her home by public transit. She wants to go to the main branch of the library rather than the one in walking distance. So her husband has turned into her chauffeur. Well, she’s just a bitch , you say. I wouldn’t disagree, but I’ve seen the same thing with relatives who live in the burbs- where there really isn’t any public transportation and there aren’t as many cabs as here and things are more spread out. **It’s one thing to not drive but be able and willing to get around on your own and another if you either can’t or won’t get around on your own.** (bold mine) Exactly. Your sister’s (or her husband’s) problem has nothing to do with her unwillingness (not inability) to drive per se. She is just irresponsible. It’s 2015. My local cab company has an app. I tap on a few buttons on my phone and a cab shows up in 5-15 minutes. And I live in a suburb. I imagine in NYC it’s even easier. To use an analogy. Suppose that someone is unwilling to clean house or do laundry. A responsible person would make arrangements to hire a house cleaner and laundry service. An irresponsible one relies on their partner to do it all (assuming both have jobs; in other cases one essentially pays their partner to clean their house and do their laundry, by supporting them financially). ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/39 "2015-10-11T12:43:22Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It is quite expensive to get the decent ones … What do you mean by that? If you’ve been looking for love in mail order bride catalogs then I think we’ve located the source of your problem… ---
**Author:** ![BrightSunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@BrightSunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightSunshine)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035/40 "2015-10-11T12:58:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I think being unable to drive is a major special need. It pretty much means you will always have to live somewhere with a high level of access to public transit, which could mean making a lot of career and housing compromises. This is not true at all – if someone has sufficient money (I do) they can live anywhere. Obviously there are some jobs they cannot do which involve driving, but most of those are not necessarily desirable or high-paying jobs anyway (precisely since most people know how to drive, it’s not a specialty skill that can command a high wage). I feel like some people live in their own little bubbles and are unable to comprehend or accept different ways of life, as well as recent progress in technology and society. For me, close-mindedness is far more problematic than being unable or unwilling to perform a few physical tasks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-date-someone-who-couldnt-be-100-independent/734035.md?page=3)