# Would You Drive a Car Without a Steering Wheel? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 3, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982 "2013-11-03T13:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/1 "2013-11-03T13:42:33Z")
Now that many cars are “drive by wire”-why not replace the old fashioned steering wheel with a joystick? It would n make for a safer car in a crash, and probably be a more relaxed driving experience. I remember seeing a prototype car with a (primitive) joystick-back in the 1960’s. The technology exists-would you buy a car like that? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/2 "2013-11-03T13:46:34Z")
Many cars are drive-by-wire? I seriously doubt that. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/3 "2013-11-03T14:19:27Z")
Do you think people who have been driving for decades with a good old-fashioned steering wheel are going to go for THAT??? I certainly wouldn’t want to buy a new car with a joystick and have to learn that. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/4 "2013-11-03T14:23:46Z")
AFAIK, all cars retain mechanical linkages for steering and brakes, no matter how sophisticated, wired or computer-assisted those functions might be. (I had a 2003 Mercedes with “electronic” brakes; it was a computer-assisted system with a mechanical hydraulic basis that still functioned when the computer failed. I know this because the computers in that car did fail… frequently.) “Drive by wire” almost exclusively means that the throttle is connected to an engine control module that will do whatever is most efficient to adjust engine speed - open or close the throttle body plate, adjust spark timing, even adjust cam timing. This relatively simple and noncritical function is a long ways from electronic-only, by-wire steering and braking. ---
**Author:** ![Snerky\_Snerk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Snerky\_Snerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snerky_Snerk)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/5 "2013-11-03T14:25:03Z")
Joystick? I’m old, so would be ok with that, but wouldn’t the younger folk prefer something more like an xbox control pad? ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/6 "2013-11-03T14:29:59Z")
There’s a reason why they make video game racing wheels. Joysticks work okay (better than keyboard & mouse) but a wheel and pedals works a lot better. I think the big issue is that it’s not intuitive to have the steering axis and the gas/brake axis on the same control. Especially since you don’t really want the gas and brakes to be a continuous axis. But if you keep the pedals, what you’ve got is basically a 1-axis tiller, not a joystick. The wheel and pedal arrangement work pretty darn well. Maybe there’s a better alternative out there, but I don’t think a joystick is it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/7 "2013-11-03T14:34:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I remember seeing a prototype car with a (primitive) joystick-back in the 1960’s. Cars with bizarre, non-standard controls have been a staple of designers and auto shows since at least the 1920s. Most are just designed to be eye-catching and thought-provoking (and jury-winning). It’s possible that a complete rethink of the automotive control interface could be done and result in something more efficient, safer, accident-reducing, etc. A steering wheel and control pedals are pretty… 1900s. OTOH, if any better interface existed, it would be used on top-end racing vehicles… but even in the most absurdly tweaked, computer-profiled, wind-and-track-tested F1 bullet, there’s your basic steering wheel, pedals and (until very recently, with the advent of paddle shifters) gearshift lever. Says it all, I think. F1 has been unafraid to try ANYTHING for an advantage and if they couldn’t come up with an improved control interface, I don’t think a designer mostly concerned about the look of his clay models and winning show awards is going to. Nor Joe Shadetree, nor even a putative Bill Gates or Steve Jobs of the automotive world. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/8 "2013-11-03T14:35:25Z")
While it’s fairly easy to make a drive by wire car using today’s technology, it’s currently not legal to do so in the U.S. (no idea about other countries). Cars here are required by law to have a mechanical linkage from the steering wheel to the wheels. With the airbag currently mounted on the steering wheel, I’m not sure that removing the wheel would really make things all that much safer. You’d get a little bit of extra distance before hitting an airbag that deploys from the dash, but I doubt it would make that much difference. The only thing I see that you would avoid is getting your wrists burned, which is a common problem with steering wheel airbags. Steering wheels have a much larger range of motion than a joystick. While a joystick controlled car is technically possible, it would be much more difficult to control than a steering wheel controlled car. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/9 "2013-11-03T14:52:24Z")
You need that wheel to stabilize yourself when turning corners. Not a big deal when you’re just a passenger, buy when your operating the vehicle, you need to be stable. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/10 "2013-11-03T15:04:47Z")
How am I going to steer a joystick with my knee? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/11 "2013-11-03T16:15:18Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > How am I going to steer a joystick with my knee? Easy, if you’re goin’ to California. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/12 "2013-11-03T16:20:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Now that many cars are “drive by wire”-why not replace the old fashioned steering wheel with a joystick? It would n make for a safer car in a crash, and probably be a more relaxed driving experience. I remember seeing a prototype car with a (primitive) joystick-back in the 1960’s. The technology exists-would you buy a car like that? [MIB would.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDtwTqBwqwk) ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/13 "2013-11-03T23:51:03Z")
Back in 1964, while in the ARMY, my buddies & I figured out how to mechanically use an HU1a control stick, ( a lot of different ones would have worked just fine ) so that you had steering, accelerator & brakes with just the stick. Many other things of the time could be controlled with the switches on the stick that were normally on the dash. The important 4 are purely mechanical. Small aircraft do just fine with a stick and fighter pilots needing major stability proffered them. IIRC, the P-38 pilots that transferred over from different aircraft mostly dislike them. The wheel is learned all our lives as what we use in cars. Motorcyclist, small boat sailors, fighter pilots, etc. all learn other ways very well and rather easily … I never had any special training for it and using either hand on the stick with the throttle group being left or right sided or above my head was instinctual and natural. Very, very few pilots have I ever heard otherwise from. YSMMD Your Steering Mechanism (Method) May Differ. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/14 "2013-11-04T00:38:55Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Steering wheels have a much larger range of motion than a joystick. While a joystick controlled car is technically possible, it would be much more difficult to control than a steering wheel controlled car. This is the part that would screw up most drivers. If you were able to move the front wheels lock to lock with a flick of your wrist, any sudden move would result in chaos. A steering wheel allows for very fine adjustment of steering. The only vehicle I know of without a steering wheel is the no longer produced Gizmo, a “neighborhood electric vehicle.” It was steered via a pair of joysticks, one on each side of the driver. To turn right, you pushed the left one forward and pulled back the right one. Very intuitive. I think it was made this way because you entered through the front of the vehicle, like a BMW Isetta. [http://www.nevco-ev.com/index2.html](http://www.nevco-ev.com/index2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/15 "2013-11-04T00:50:25Z")
Seems to me I’ve seen prototypes with a kind of airplane yolk setup that also served as the accelerator and brakes. Pulling back on the yolk increased velocity, and pushing forward decreased velocity. And of course the turning of the yolk turns the wheels. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/16 "2013-11-04T00:58:49Z")
You ever play Grand Theft Auto? Believe me, it isn’t that easy to “drive” a car with a joypad or analog stick. I’d rather keep a sizable enough steering wheel that I can hold with both hands, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/17 "2013-11-04T02:25:57Z")
I wouldn’t want to use a _little_ joystick, with a “throw” of only an inch or two. I’d like something that’s larger and coarser, so that a tiny little jiggle of my thumb won’t throw the car right off the road. A larger control stick, such as used in aircraft, would be fine. I could learn to use it quickly, and could be perfectly happy with it. **Shakes** has a very good point: you can hold on to the steering wheel and brace yourself on it. For a joystick to have the same function, it would need to be set inside a frame of some sort, which would be fixed to the car, so you could grab it and hold on to it to steady yourself. You could put the control stick between two big brackets, and the standard driving position would be to have your palms on the brackets, and your fingers on the stick. Obviously, much ergonomic research would go into optimizing the design. It will be hard to beat out the old-fashioned wheel, but it might well be possible. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/18 "2013-11-04T03:21:04Z")
People used to drive cars without steering wheels- [https://www.google.com/search?q=curved+dash+olds&client=firefox-a&hs=ywW&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WBJ3UuOiJNStsASQ0oCYBA&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=910](https://www.google.com/search?q=curved+dash+olds&client=firefox-a&hs=ywW&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WBJ3UuOiJNStsASQ0oCYBA&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=910) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/19 "2013-11-04T04:16:55Z")
I’ve also (very briefly) driven a Caterpillar tractor, with the two independent levers controlling the two tracks. Kinda fun! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982/20 "2013-11-04T04:30:23Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > People used to drive cars without steering wheels- > > [curved dash olds - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=curved+dash+olds&client=firefox-a&hs=ywW&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WBJ3UuOiJNStsASQ0oCYBA&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=910) Now imagine driving one of those boneshakers at highway speed with nothing but a mechanical tiller to control your direction. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-drive-a-car-without-a-steering-wheel/672982.md?page=2)