# Would you expose this grieving televangelist's hypocrisy? (If hypocrisy it is.) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 27, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347 "2015-07-27T19:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/81 "2015-07-30T16:22:36Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I think some posters in this thread are thinking about it like this: > > 1. Jacquie is religious and in fact is a minister. > 2. Therefore, Jacquie is a hypocrite. Ermm, no, I haven’t seen anyone reason that she’s a hypocrite _because_ she’s religious. Those who think she’s a hypocrite, such as myself, think she’s that because she says one thing and does the opposite of what she says. > [@](#): > > Too many people seem to be insisting that Jacquie be held to a higher standard than the rest of the human race. I hold her to the same standard I’d hold anybody. Including myself. > [@](#): > > MrDibble would air the video, for sure. “Hell yes,” he says, he considers her a hypocrite. Yep. > [@](#): > > This grieving woman seems to be held by some to a ridiculously high standard, higher that I’d bet most of us hold ourselves to. Nope. “Don’t lie” is _exactly_ the same standard I hold myself to. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/82 "2015-07-30T16:29:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > We all do. Some of us are more aware of it than others. See any science done around eyewitnesses, for example. There’s a difference between that kind of thing (like the Gorilla experiment, or eyewitness reliability in general) where it’s witnessing events not your own to control, and a later, deliberate, conscious action _by yourself_. The OP makes it clear that this rant wasn’t a spontaneous outburst (at least, that’s how \*I \*interpret the sentence “Thinking herself alone and unobserved”. She mentally checked first.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/83 "2015-07-30T16:38:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s a difference between that kind of thing (like the Gorilla experiment, or eyewitness reliability in general) where it’s witnessing events not your own to control, and a later, deliberate, conscious action _by yourself_. The OP makes it clear that this rant wasn’t a spontaneous outburst (at least, that’s how \*I \*interpret the sentence “Thinking herself alone and unobserved”. She mentally checked first.) We don’t read the OP the same way. She went into a place to be alone to wait for her husband and she broke down. If I go into an empty room, I think I’m alone and unobserved. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/84 "2015-07-30T17:19:06Z")
Yes, we’re going to have to agree to disagree - until/unless Skald clarifies - you see uncontrollable breakdown, I see mask slipping. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/85 "2015-07-30T17:39:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > i.e. made up, rather than _saying_ “I was so shocked i don’t remember” I think you’re employing either an unreasonably high standard of recall, or an unreasonably high standard of precision in language. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/86 "2015-07-30T19:05:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s a difference between that kind of thing (like the Gorilla experiment, or eyewitness reliability in general) where it’s witnessing events not your own to control, and a later, deliberate, conscious action _by yourself_. The OP makes it clear that this rant wasn’t a spontaneous outburst (at least, that’s how \*I \*interpret the sentence “Thinking herself alone and unobserved”. She mentally checked first.) That’s bullshit. The only checking you do in a situation like that is to close the door behind you after entering an empty room; you wouldn’t check for listening devices. It seems to me know that your willingness to humiliate our fictional preacher stems from your long-standing and practically Hugoesque anti-clerical biases. Jacquie is a televangelist, so to you she must be a villain, and thus fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/87 "2015-07-30T19:07:43Z")
The above was me writing as poster. As OP: I meant Jacquie’s rant to be an uncontrollable breakdown. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/88 "2015-07-30T19:25:28Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Since we’re revisiting the hypocrisy angle: I’m still not convinced it is necessarily hypocritical. > > As an example, it’s not uncommon for children (or even adults) to get mad and say “I hate you!” to their parents, siblings, friends, lovers, etc. Yet we don’t call them liars when they say “I have always loved you.” We recognize that the verbal expression of hate is not necessarily a true statement about the relationship. Maybe it was a temporary feeling, but we don’t see it negating the underlying love that defines the relationship. > > Since we only know what was said - we don’t know how she felt about this expression, and we don’t know what she remembers - I’m still inclined to say this is human nature and not necessarily hypocrisy. Even if it was hypocrisy, it’s the type I’d be inclined to shrug off and not hold someone accountable for. Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/89 "2015-07-30T19:34:03Z")
Since I’m one of the few Christian Republican Dopers, I’ll turn the situation around, and imagine that the “hypocrite” in question is someone on the Left. For the sake of argument, suppose, I dunno, Richard Dawkins is walking down the street with his daughter, and she starts having horrible convulsions. She falls to the ground and appears dead. Suppose Dawkins began sobbing and begging God to save her. If I had videotape of such a thing, would I post it on Youtube and try to show that the militant atheist Dawkins was a contemptible phony? Frankly, I think I’d have to be a real jerk to do so. The man is in pain, worried about his daughter frantic and desperate… why would I want to heap humiliation on him at a time like that? If Dawkins or “Jacquie” were engaged in some kind of hypocrisy that was hurting others, I might feel differently. But I have no desire to embarrass people who are suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/90 "2015-07-30T19:59:53Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Since I’m one of the few Christian Republican Dopers, I’ll turn the situation around, and imagine that the “hypocrite” in question is someone on the Left. Why is everyone assuming Jacquie is a right-winger? There is absofrickinglutely nothing in the OP to indicate her political or social leanings. She could be a pacifist, pro-choice, vegan who campaigned for Nader for all we know. We CAN say with certainty is that she didn’t support Obama in the 2008 campaign, though. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/91 "2015-07-30T20:30:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That’s bullshit. The only checking you do in a situation like that is to close the door behind you after entering an empty room; you wouldn’t check for listening devices. Good thing I didn’t say that, then, did I? “Mentally checked” is what I said - took a pause and thought if she was safe. > [@](#): > > It seems to me know that your willingness to humiliate our fictional preacher stems from your long-standing and practically Hugoesque anti-clerical biases. Jacquie is a televangelist, so to you she must be a villain, and thus fair game. No, actually. I’d give\* exactly the same respons\*e to, say, a secular self-help guru doing something similar, or a politician who espouses liberal values going into a private racist rant after a minority accidentally kills his kid, etc. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The above was me writing as poster. As OP: I meant Jacquie’s rant to be an uncontrollable breakdown. How uncontrollable is it, if she deliberately waits until she’s alone rather than spew blasphemy in front of the doctors and nurses as soon as she hears the news (which is the kind of deathside breakdown I’ve seen)? I mean, I _get_ that you’re the OP, so she’s your character, but to me, the description you gave spells control. Tightly-wound control, but control, nonetheless. > [@Miller](#): > > I think you’re employing either an unreasonably high standard of recall, or an unreasonably high standard of precision in language. The latter. Or rather, I want forethought to public utterances. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why is everyone assuming Jacquie is a right-winger? There is absofrickinglutely nothing in the OP to indicate her political or social leanings. She could be a pacifist, pro-choice, vegan who campaigned for Nader for all we know. Please cite for me _any_ vegan, pro-choice Greens who run evangelical megachurches and write prosperity theology-sounding books… I agree that she doesn’t _have_ to be a RW, but c’mon… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/92 "2015-07-30T20:32:45Z")
And as one of the few other Christian Republican Dopers around, I will affirm that if I were a member of Jacquie’s congregation, I would care almost nothing about what she said in her moment of horror. I would regard the TV producer who tried this kind of gotcha as the lowest form of sleazey slimeball. Read Psalm 22. Recognize the opening line? Jesus quoted it from the cross. And then read where the psalm ends. That’s one of the nice things about God. You don’t have to worry about hurting His feelings, because He knows even better than you what you are saying. Yes, it was wrong for Jacquie to say that she never doubted God. That having been said, she just lost a child. Cut her some goddam slack. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/93 "2015-07-31T00:41:39Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Lotta hostility towards religion in this thread. What a surprise. I don’t think it is hostility toward religion. I think it’s a refusal to acknowledge the complexity of human experience and emotion. But then, I am not religious, exactly (Okay, I think it’s nasty, bigotty self-righteousness; until the day they drop to their arthritic knees without noting the pain, moaning their loss, I do not care to hear their judgement of another.) (We are talking about a woman who lost her baby here. What is _ **wrong** _ with people?!) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/94 "2015-07-31T01:30:32Z")
> [@j666](#): > > I don’t think it is hostility toward religion. I think it’s a refusal to acknowledge the complexity of human experience and emotion. > > But then, I am not religious, exactly > > (Okay, I think it’s nasty, bigotty self-righteousness; until the day they drop to their arthritic knees without noting the pain, moaning their loss, I do not care to hear their judgement of another.) > > (We are talking about a woman who lost her baby here. What is _ **wrong** _ with people?!) I am an atheist. But I know far too many pro-SSM, pro-choice, anti-war Christians toiling to help the poor, the homeless, the despairing, the lonely, the downtrodden, and the grieving in Memphis to judge Christians as harshly as you. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/95 "2015-07-31T01:36:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Good thing I didn’t say that, then, did I? “Mentally checked” is what I said - took a pause and thought if she was safe.No, actually. I’d give\* exactly the same respons\*e to, say, a secular self-help guru doing something similar, or a politician who espouses liberal values going into a private racist rant after a minority accidentally kills his kid, etc. > > How uncontrollable is it, if she deliberately waits until she’s alone rather than spew blasphemy in front of the doctors and nurses as soon as she hears the news (which is the kind of deathside breakdown I’ve seen)? I mean, I _get_ that you’re the OP, so she’s your character, but to me, the description you gave spells control. Tightly-wound control, but control, nonetheless. > > The latter. Or rather, I want forethought to public utterances. > Please cite for me _any_ vegan, pro-choice Greens who run evangelical megachurches and write prosperity theology-sounding books… > I agree that she doesn’t _have_ to be a RW, but c’mon… Nowhere in the OP is Jacquie’s church described as “evangelical.” As for the rest: who cares? As her politics are never mentioned, assuming they are righty is just an excuse to justify bias. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/96 "2015-07-31T01:52:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am an atheist. But I know far too many pro-SSM, pro-choice, anti-war Christians toiling to help the poor, the homeless, the despairing, the lonely, the downtrodden, and the grieving in Memphis to judge Christians as harshly as you. I have been unclear, obviously. The only people I am judging harshly are those who judge Jacqui harshly. She lost her child. She might have been sociopathic enough to use that to her professional and financial advantage, but that is not my default assumption, and I have a low opinion of those for whom it is. I was raised Catholic, and to believe that only God can pass judgement on others. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/97 "2015-07-31T05:11:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Nowhere in the OP is Jacquie’s church described as “evangelical.” Errrm, “televangelist”? > [@](#): > > As for the rest: who cares? As her politics are never mentioned, assuming they are righty is just an excuse to justify bias. Her politics have nothing to do with her hypocrisy - do you see me calling out her politics when I gave my answer? But it’s disingenuous to pretend that she could have _any_ political slant. Liberal and prosperity theology megachurch pastor do _not_ go hand in hand. > [@j666](#): > > (We are talking about a woman who lost her baby here. What is _ **wrong** _ with people?!) What makes you think people calling her a hypocrite have not lost kids themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/98 "2015-07-31T05:15:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Errrm, “televangelist”? Despite the similarity of the words, “evangelist” and “Evangelical” do not mean the same thing. > [@](#): > > But it’s disingenuous to pretend that she could have _any_ political slant. Liberal and prosperity theology megachurch pastor do _not_ go hand in hand. [Robert Schuller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Schuller), for example? (at least for some values of “liberal”) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/99 "2015-07-31T06:59:25Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Despite the similarity of the words, “evangelist” and “Evangelical” do not mean the same thing. I know the difference between little-e and big-E evangelical, _which is why I used the former_. _All_ televangelists are evangelical, even if they’re not Evangelical. > [@](#): > > [Robert Schuller](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Schuller), for example? (at least for some values of “liberal”) I think also for some values of “prosperity theology”, since I can’t seem to find a link between Schuller and the movement. Although I’d certainly say he was liberal (I remember him speaking out against his church doing some anti-gay thing, after he’d retired) ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347/100 "2015-07-31T14:36:49Z")
> [@j666](#): > > (We are talking about a woman who lost her baby here. What is _ **wrong** _ with people?!) We are talking about a fictional woman who’s the fictional head a fictional megachurch with fictional congregants who worship a fictional god, and who had a fictional kid who fictionally died when a fictional brick fell on the fictional kid’s fictional head. What is _ **wrong** _ with people? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-expose-this-grieving-televangelists-hypocrisy-if-hypocrisy-it-is/726347.md?page=6)