# Would you have put the elves at Helm's Deep for $150 Million? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476 "2003-12-17T05:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476/41 "2003-12-18T23:32:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Waenara_ > > That they make Arwen’s fate tied to the victory - she gives up her immortality, and unless Aragorn wins, she will die immediately. I think this is ridiculous and completely unnecessary. I can’t think of any reason to merit this change. What, saving the world from absolute evil isn’t enough motivation for Aragorn? I’ll just have to stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes during that part - or run to the bathroom. The way I read that was that Arwen was willing herself to die, as elves are wont to do when they get majorly depressed. She couldn’t stand to go to the Grey Havens and leave Aragorn, but her father was opposed to the marriage. Plus, Sauron’s going to kill Aragorn anyway, and then kill everyone else, so she might as well end it now before the orcs get to Rivendell. Most of all, though, it wasn’t supposed to get Aragorn to fight any harder, it was to force Elrond into action. He couldn’t just leave Middle Earth and leave her anymore than she could leave Aragorn. So, he reforged Isildur’s sword and pointed Aragorn at the Paths of the Dead. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476/42 "2003-12-19T05:47:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoCoolUserName \* > **Would you make the same decisions (cut Bombadil, ramp up the “relationship” between Aragorn and Arwen, elves at Helm’s Deep,** You left out “having the king, after Gandalf had lifted Wyrmtongue’s scales from his eyes, wuss out and **hide** at Helm’s Deep instead of riding ravenously into battle there in the first place.” ---
**Author:** ![Deptford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Deptford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deptford)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476/43 "2003-12-19T15:58:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > \*\*Giving Arwen everything done by other random evles in the books is a GREAT change. Tolkein himself should have done it. I remember the first time I read the books, and Aragorn ends up marrying some unknown elf princess at the end. I didn’t even remember Arwen from her brief appearance in FOTR at Rivendell. Unless Arwen is a real character, the story of Aragorn and Arwen is meaningless. So stick every bit of the appendix that you can into the main story, give her Glorfindel’s part, anything you can. It MAKES THE STORY BETTER. Really, it does. > \*\* Absolutely, the first tume i read LOTR. When Arwen turns up again, after about 600 pages since you last saw her. I was baffled. “Where the hell did she spring from?” was pretty mucjh my reaction. Had to spend 10 minutes flicking back through the book to remind myself who she was. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476/44 "2003-12-19T17:20:42Z")
The thing with Arwen is, great writer that Tolkien is, he couldn’t write romance worth a darn. Nothing against love at first sight, mind you, but it’s a bit of a crutch. So I have no objections at all to Jackson developing her character a bit more and actually giving her some screen time. She really is a big part of the story, bigger than Tolkien made it clear in the main body of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476/45 "2003-12-19T23:49:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Waenara \* > \*\* > It would not have been good to keep it as written in the book. Picture it: you’ve just spent the last four and half hours (FOTR and first half of TTT) explaining how horrendous and manipulative the ring is. It is the source of tremendous evil, that no one can withstand without being corrupted by it (including Aragorn, and even more importantly Gandalf). It has turn Smeagol into a destroyed creature over the course of 500 years. It is slowly destroying Frodo’s mind and spirit. Now here’s Faramir - a new character who’s seeing the ring for the first time. In the book he says something like he “wouldn’t pick it up, even if it lay by the wayside.” Now you’ve completely destroyed the power of the ring. All momentum is gone and the tension is incredibly diminished._\* Valid point, with one minor drawback: In the book, Faramir says that about not picking it up before he even knows what Frodo’s secret actually is. When he learns that Frodo has the One Ring, Faramir is wise enough to know that he just didn’t oughtta go there - and he pointedly says he doesn’t even want to see it or know where it is or hear _any more_ about it. Even the Ring can’t tempt someone who doesn’t even see it. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waenara \* > \*\* > I think this was one of the best decisions the screenwriters made. > \*\* But for the “one minor drawback”, I’d go along with you. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waenara \* > \*\* > The only change that I’ve heard of in ROTK that i’m SURE will bother me (I haven’t seen it yet, but I’ve read several spoiler articles) is: That they make Arwen’s fate tied to the victory - she gives up her immortality, and unless Aragorn wins, she will die immediately. I think this is ridiculous and completely unnecessary. I can’t think of any reason to merit this change. What, saving the world from absolute evil isn’t enough motivation for Aragorn? I’ll just have to stick my fingers in my ears and close my eyes during that part - or run to the bathroom. \*\* Yep, that sucks. Way to waste time better spent on… (continues in this vein for bloody ages) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476/46 "2003-12-20T00:10:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neofishboy \* > _I would have put Keebler_ Elves at Helm’s Deep for $150 Million. \*\* Oh, lordy, now I have diet Pepsi all over my screen & keyboard. This HAS to be the best _one line_ reply in years. Yes, Poly, your reply was a marvel of explanation and well worded. But- (snort, guffaw…) Keebler…(lapses into giggling) elves…😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-put-the-elves-at-helms-deep-for-150-million/219476.md?page=2)