# Would you have shot the gun confiscators when they came to your door? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770 "2009-04-11T20:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/81 "2009-04-13T05:43:20Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > How far does this go? > > If you’re assaulted and unable to defend yourself, in lawless post Katrina New Orleans, after the confiscation will the cops pay your medical bills, therapy, and possibly funeral expenses for you and your family? You’d be welcome to try and sue the city (and you’d probably lose), but you would not have a legal defense for killing the officers sent to enforce the order. > [@](#): > > If the police wanted to cuff you to a tree in Compton with the word “snitch” tapped to your forehead would resisting that be okay? The question is would killing them to stop them be ok? The answer is probably not. They’d probably get in trouble if the got caught, though. > [@](#): > > At what level of jeopardy do cop orders expose you to risk without resisting being an act of self defense? It’s only self-defense if they are actively trying to kill you, and even then, you’d have a long row to hoe. If you really think you’d ever be able to skate for murdering cops who came to your door to enforce an emergency order (or more likely, stopped you on the street to pat you down), I think you’d be in for a rude awakening. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/82 "2009-04-13T05:54:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s no chance the officers would be in any legal trouble for enforcing the order. Even if you want to argue that they were following an unlawful order, you’d still have to prove they KNEW it was an unlawful order, and that would be all but impossible. Ignorance of the law is not a defense, even for the general public. If the courts ignore this to protect police from the consequences of their unlawful actions, it suggests you have a bigger problem. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/83 "2009-04-13T06:19:27Z")
Um, yeah; the police aren’t above the law. With a few exceptions, they don’t have any more protection while committing illegal acts than any other person would. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/84 "2009-04-13T11:18:02Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > Um, yeah; the police aren’t above the law. With a few exceptions, they don’t have any more protection while committing illegal acts than any other person would. “I shot them because I felt their enforcement of the confiscation order was not constitutional.” Oh, yeah, _that’ll_ be cited for years to come in law school. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/85 "2009-04-13T11:54:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Just as I thought. You haven’t got the guts to actually say what you would do if the law came for your weapons-just false bravado and broad hints. What say the rest of you? Is **Scumpup** the person _you_ would turn to for legal advice? If I were a moderator, could I make statements like this about you? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/86 "2009-04-13T12:11:59Z")
In any case, some people will obey every order that somebody in a uniform gives them. Some people will not. Shoot-outs with the police\_or anybody\_are not my first choice of ways for events to work out. You do what you think is right. I will do what I think is right. Each of us will have to live with the consequences of his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/87 "2009-04-13T13:36:51Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Each of us will have to live with the consequences of his actions. Even in the movies, the usual consequence of you violently disagreeing with the law would be _not living at all_. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/88 "2009-04-13T13:42:33Z")
From a practical standpoint. How bad is the post disaster scene? How bad does it appear its gonna get? My nice law abiding suburb that will just be without power for a week? Take the guns officer (jerk), my barking dogs, big knifes, and some 2 by 4s should be enough. A cross between the hood and Mad Max? I think I’ll keep the guns, thank you, because it looks like I’ll have to use em sooner and then later as well… ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/89 "2009-04-13T13:46:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Even in the movies, the usual consequence of you violently disagreeing with the law would be _not living at all_. Each of us will have to live with the consequences of his actions. That is where this discussion ends because there is no more to say. Not everybody is like you. Not everybody wants to be like you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/90 "2009-04-13T14:32:19Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > In any case, some people will obey every order that somebody in a uniform gives them. Some people will not. Shoot-outs with the police\_or anybody\_are not my first choice of ways for events to work out. > You do what you think is right. > I will do what I think is right. > Each of us will have to live with the consequences of his actions. Each of us will have to live with the consequences of his actions. Anyone trying to shoot it out with the cops would probably never have the opportunity to live with the consequences. Having said that. I think you’d do exactly as you were told. It’s easy to bluster on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/91 "2009-04-13T14:35:09Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > From a practical standpoint. > > How bad is the post disaster scene? How bad does it appear its gonna get? > > My nice law abiding suburb that will just be without power for a week? Take the guns officer (jerk), my barking dogs, big knifes, and some 2 by 4s should be enough. > > A cross between the hood and Mad Max? I think I’ll keep the guns, thank you, because it looks like I’ll have to use em sooner and then later as well… So you would try to kill police officers attempting to enforce the order? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/92 "2009-04-13T14:37:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anyone trying to shoot it out with the cops would probably never have the opportunity to live with the consequences. > > Having said that. I think you’d do exactly as you were told. It’s easy to bluster on the internet. Everybody isn’t like you, either. Nor does everybody want to be like you. The fact that you are unwilling to undertake a particular course of action doesn’t mean that nobody is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/93 "2009-04-13T14:46:26Z")
That’s right. I’m unwilling to be a murderer. Some people aren’t, but those people are called sociopaths. Are you a sociopath? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/94 "2009-04-13T14:48:33Z")
Anybody who isn’t just like you is a sociopath? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/95 "2009-04-13T14:55:00Z")
Anyone who is willing to commit murder is a sociopath. You disagree? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/96 "2009-04-13T14:55:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > So you would try to kill police officers attempting to enforce the order? Officers ordered to round up thousands of guns from thousands of homes. Not to mention tons of other more important shit that needs to be done. They have no reason to assume anything other than I am a law abiding guy IN HIS house who says he aint coming out and he aint giving up his gun. Lets say thats the vibe I give them. And it would be. My reasons for NEEDING my guns for self defense seem pretty obvious to the officers (as they look around ). Maybe, just maybe, they might think, bump this shit, we will come back to this guy later. Police officers arent in any rush to get in a gunfight either. IFF you REALLY think you are going to need a gun to survive, at some point taking a chance that you’ll have a SWAT team mentallity instead of ones like described above becomes worth it. Some of you think refusing equals instant death. Surely, in the New Orleans roundup, a fair share of folks said hell no. How many of them were shot dead? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/97 "2009-04-13T14:57:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Anyone who is willing to commit murder is a sociopath. You disagree? Not every killing is murder. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/98 "2009-04-13T15:04:27Z")
Killing cops in the scenario being discussed in this thread is murder. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/99 "2009-04-13T15:06:11Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Officers ordered to round up thousands of guns from thousands of homes. Not to mention tons of other more important shit that needs to be done. > > They have no reason to assume anything other than I am a law abiding guy IN HIS house who says he aint coming out and he aint giving up his gun. Lets say thats the vibe I give them. And it would be. > > My reasons for NEEDING my guns for self defense seem pretty obvious to the officers (as they look around ). > > Maybe, just maybe, they might think, bump this shit, we will come back to this guy later. > > Police officers arent in any rush to get in a gunfight either. > > IFF you REALLY think you are going to need a gun to survive, at some point taking a chance that you’ll have a SWAT team mentallity instead of ones like described above becomes worth it. > > Some of you think refusing equals instant death. > > Surely, in the New Orleans roundup, a fair share of folks said hell no. > > How many of them were shot dead? What if they weren’t willing to take no for an answer? Would you be willing to kill them, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770/100 "2009-04-13T15:12:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Killing cops in the scenario being discussed in this thread is murder. We draw our lines in different places. There is no more to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-shot-the-gun-confiscators-when-they-came-to-your-door/492770.md?page=6)