# Would you have to be a freak to avoid alcohol in Britain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239 "2006-01-03T16:38:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/41 "2006-01-04T22:17:56Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > So, is it a British thing? I would say it was more of a medical student thing. Traditionally the hardest-drinking students, and students in general are traditionally the hardest-drinking group of the population. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/42 "2006-01-04T22:20:53Z")
> [@mrklutz](#): > > In a previous job at a large international corporation, the department I was in was a global one – it had offices in every city where the corporation had a major presence. When we would get together for semi-annual conferences, it was widely known that you were in _big_ trouble if you tried to keep up with the crew from Brighton. Matching them drink-for-drink was not considered survivable by most. They didn’t have offices in Glasgow or Belfast, I presume? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/43 "2006-01-04T22:22:15Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > I would say it was more of a medical student thing. Traditionally the hardest-drinking students, and students in general are traditionally the hardest-drinking group of the population. 🙂 They think themselves to be so, but they never go out drinking except once a week, with other medical students, and so have no reference point. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/44 "2006-01-04T22:34:27Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > I would say it was more of a medical student thing. Traditionally the hardest-drinking students, and students in general are traditionally the hardest-drinking group of the population. 🙂 From what I’ve seen medical students drink far less than engineering students. ---
**Author:** ![twopennorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@twopennorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twopennorth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/45 "2006-01-04T22:58:03Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > _Sigh_ > > Okay - I have tasted drinks, i.e. sipped things, a few times. For the sake of clarity, I have never been inebriated or even tipsy or spinny. Better? > > And I get that question a lot too, frequently with the “ha HA! caught you out you lier!” tone of voice as if at the thought of me having tasted alcohol the world suddenly becomes okay again. So you sipped, but didn’t swallow? I was just seeking clarity on your opinion. I’ve not got an agenda on the issue. I had a friend who was a lifelong non-drinker but I think that was triggered by a nasty bout of underage drinking. I never took issue with him; I just presumed he was happy not drinking. It is unusual, I agree. Most of your post made sense but I don’t think that drinking to get drunk is a peculiarly English phenomenon. Some of the subsequent behaviour might be; a French friend of mine says it reminds him of Saxons on drunken rampages. I should imagine you know just what he is talking about, I certainly do. I’m not a big drinker as it happens, no reason, I could just happily live without alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/46 "2006-01-04T22:59:43Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > From what I’ve seen medical students drink far less than engineering students. Of course, they finish up around the time the music students get started. Bloody brass players. (I guess the oneupmanship over hard drinking is a national trait, too!) ---
**Author:** ![twopennorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@twopennorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twopennorth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/47 "2006-01-04T23:03:12Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Several years ago I attended the wedding of a family friend. One of the guests – let’s call him “Fergus” – came over from England, where he grew up. Fergus was about 22-25 years old and he had completed medical school in England and was doing his surgical internship or whatever the British equivalent is. In other words, people’s lives could be put into Fergus’s hands in a hospital somewhere. > > At the reception, champagne was served at every place setting. Many of the guests were not drinkers and most tables had partially full champagne glasses. As soon as the formal part of the proceedings ended and the guests began leaving their tables, Fergus started going around to every table and draining every glass he could find. > > Then, after the reception, many of the guests ended up back at the bride’s parent’s house. Those of us in the relatively younger (under-30) set were hanging out and eventually it was decided that we would not go out to a bar or dance club because there were several teen-agers in our group who would not be able to join us, so we all decided to just hang out and shoot the breeze. No problems for most of us – we enjoyed the company and the occasion. > > Fergus, however, was outraged. “This is my cousin’s fucking wedding day!” he ranted. “I want to go out and DRINK! What’s the matter with you people? Let the kids stay in; it’s their own misfortune that they’re under-aged!” > > Most of us Americans – those on both sides of Fergus’s age – found his behaviour bizarre and immature. Why did he have such a hard on for drinking? From our point of view, he was acting like some out-of-control frat boy. Why did he act like it was unthinkable for the rest of us not to insist on going out to drink? > > So, is it a British thing? No, that is a bad manners thing. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/48 "2006-01-04T23:25:36Z")
> [@twopennorth](#): > > So you sipped, but didn’t swallow? > > I was just seeking clarity on your opinion. I’ve not got an agenda on the issue. No of course not, sorry if my post came across as defensive. I’ve just had that conversation so many times (and others in that vein of thinking) that I’m pretty sick of it, and I’m only 26!!! Still, we’ll see who has the last laugh - no cirrhosis for me. Of course there is this bus that everyone keeps warning me about tomorrow, should I start worrying about that? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/49 "2006-01-04T23:29:37Z")
**Acsenray** I’d agree with everyone else, I think Fergus may have had a problem. Saying that the “leave the kids and let’s get drunk” mentality does pervade slightly, basically if you’re over the age of 12 all you do is dream of being 18 so you can stop lying to get alcohol and actually go to clubs rather than drink in parks with your friends. Our society doesn’t engage very much with teenagers until they’ve “caught up” with us so we can drink together. Sad really, and a pretty good explanation for the soaring levels of antisocial behaviour Britain is seeing now… ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/50 "2006-01-05T00:17:53Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Still, we’ll see who has the last laugh - no cirrhosis for me. Of course there is this bus that everyone keeps warning me about tomorrow, should I start worrying about that? 😛 Don’t bet on that. I have a liver condition, apparently related to type II diabetes. It has the same effects and typically presents as cirrhosis. A decade or so ago, if I had the same symptoms and told the doctor my lack of drinking habits, he would have considered me a liar. :dubious: Basically I have cirrhosis of the liver without actually doing the partying to get it. 😛 Lok ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/51 "2006-01-05T13:34:15Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > Don’t bet on that. I have a liver condition, apparently related to type II diabetes. It has the same effects and typically presents as cirrhosis. A decade or so ago, if I had the same symptoms and told the doctor my lack of drinking habits, he would have considered me a liar. :dubious: Basically I have cirrhosis of the liver without actually doing the partying to get it. 😛 > > Lok Still, the have to accept that if you never drink throughout your lifetime you’re _far less likely_ to develop the illnesses and problems that drinkers suffer from. Considering that alcohol leads to more physical and psychological disorders than any substance I still not willing to drop my “it’s bad for you - don’t do it!” stance (puritanical and slightly extreme as it may seem to others). Very sorry to hear about your misfortune, by the way. I hope everything turns out okay for you. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/52 "2006-01-05T14:29:20Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Still, the have to accept that if you never drink throughout your lifetime you’re _far less likely_ to develop the illnesses and problems that drinkers suffer from. It’s simplistic to assign risk propensity into two groups: drinkers and non-drinkers. Like most things in life, there’s a dose-response curve. A social drinker isn’t going to have a “far more likely” chance to develop the illnesses and problems. As my previous post in this thread show, the vast majority of drinkers are neither heavy drinkers nor binge drinkers. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/53 "2006-01-05T14:34:02Z")
I am not saying you should go out and party. I understand what you mean about alcohol not tasting good. I have never found any so far that I enjoyed, which has turned out to be a good thing in the long run. If I had drank when I was younger, my liver would have began falling apart even sooner, with a worse long term prognosis. The only thing you should really get from my story is, if your workplace or school or anyplace you frequent offers some kind of annual blood test or physical, you should take advantage of it. Changing some things about my life enabled me to put off the problems a few years, but testing could easily save someone’s life. Lok ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/54 "2006-01-05T14:37:52Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > It’s simplistic to assign risk propensity into two groups: drinkers and non-drinkers. Like most things in life, there’s a dose-response curve. A social drinker isn’t going to have a “far more likely” chance to develop the illnesses and problems. As my previous post in this thread show, the vast majority of drinkers are neither heavy drinkers nor binge drinkers. True, but as I’m also a non-smoker, non-coffee drinker, non-beef eater who exercises three times a week and doesn’t get involved in unncessarily dangerous activities (e.g. bungee jumping) I think the mathmatical chances of me living longer are greater. That doesn’t mean I won’t die choking on a piece of chicken in reality, however. Whilst the debate still rages about whether two glasses of wine a day is good/bad for you, ask any doctor and they’ll agree that being tee-total means you’re at lower risk of contracting a huge number of problems (not least alcoholism). I’m not being simplistic here and saying if you drink you’ll die at 30 or renal failure, just that you’re improving your odds. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/55 "2006-01-05T14:49:40Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I’m not being simplistic here and saying if you drink you’ll die at 30 or renal failure, just that you’re improving your odds. I guess it comes down to what you want out of life. There’s a joke that goes like this: — Grandpa recently turned 100. Asked what the secret was, he replied, “I’ve never drank, smoked, ate lot of fruit…etc. Today’s my birthday, let’s celebrate.” To which someone quips, “How?” — My point is that the increased odds of moderate use are counterbalanced, IMHO, by the benefit of some hedonic pleasures. You say that you NEVER gotten drunk. That suggests to me two possibilities: either you believe that getting drunk even once increases odds of detriment beyond a point you’re comfortable with, and/or once you get drunk, you won’t be able to control yourself further. Honestly, the second point may have merit, depending on personal circumstances, but the first seems irrational (IMHO). ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/56 "2006-01-05T14:57:17Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > You say that you NEVER gotten drunk. That suggests to me two possibilities: either you believe that getting drunk even once increases odds of detriment beyond a point you’re comfortable with, and/or once you get drunk, you won’t be able to control yourself further. Honestly, the second point may have merit, depending on personal circumstances, but the first seems irrational (IMHO). It’s a bit between that - I’m not saying if I got drunk once then I’d instantly wreck my health, merely that if you don’t start you never have to worry about stopping. For further clarification I used to go to clubs several times a week and dance my tits off, I socialise a lot and have no problem doing those crazy fun things that most people seem to need alcohol to do. If I don’t need alcohol to relax and have fun, they why spend a lot of money to drink it and at the same time (potentially) damage my health? It seems we just don’t agree on this one - you’re not convinced of the argument against drinking and I’m not convinvced of the argument for. At the same time you may not agree with smoking pot but there are lots of people who do and consider no worse than alcohol - it depends on what your personal view is, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/57 "2006-01-05T15:00:42Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I can’t think of anybody that I’ve met who _never_ drinks, other than for religious or medical reasons. Well we’ve never met in person, but I’m a teetotal Englishman! I just never wanted to have a hangover… And I really don’t drink, apart from my sister’s wedding (glass of champagne for the toast about 30 years ago) and my parent’s 60th wedding anniversary (another glass of champagne). I had some mild pressure to drink when down the pub with work colleagues 25 years ago, but nothing serious. I did once try, for a laugh, sipping 4 drinks in beer glasses. One was OK, one was sharp, one was smooth and one tasted of dishwater. And of course these drinks were respectively: Mild beer, Bitter Beer, Guinness and Watneys Red Barrel ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/58 "2006-01-05T15:06:28Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > I guess it comes down to what you want out of life. There’s a joke that goes like this: — Grandpa recently turned 100. Asked what the secret was, he replied, “I’ve never drank, smoked, ate lot of fruit…etc. Today’s my birthday, let’s celebrate.” To which someone quips, “How?” — My point is that the increased odds of moderate use are counterbalanced, IMHO, by the benefit of some hedonic pleasures. You say that you NEVER gotten drunk. That suggests to me two possibilities: either you believe that getting drunk even once increases odds of detriment beyond a point you’re comfortable with, and/or once you get drunk, you won’t be able to control yourself further. Honestly, the second point may have merit, depending on personal circumstances, but the first seems irrational (IMHO). Well the downside of your joke is that someone thinks that you \*\*have to drink \*\* to celebrate. 😕 I’m all for people using drugs **sensibly**. However a couple of reasons that I feel no urge to drink are my memories of people being stupid, rude or aggressive after drinking. And sadly a couple of my friends are alcoholics. Of course they won’t live to 100… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/59 "2006-01-05T15:14:06Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > You say that you NEVER gotten drunk. That suggests to me two possibilities: either you believe that getting drunk even once increases odds of detriment beyond a point you’re comfortable with, and/or once you get drunk, you won’t be able to control yourself further. Honestly, the second point may have merit, depending on personal circumstances, but the first seems irrational (IMHO). I’ve never been drunk, either. Partly that’s a byproduct of my choosing not to drink alcohol. But partly, it’s an intentional avoidance of being drunk. I don’t like the way people behave when they are drunk. II don’t like the way their personalities change, even when those changes are small. I don’t like the liberties they take. I don’t like how they excuse transgressive behaviour on being drunk. I find drunk people to be stupid, boring, and annoying. And that level is usually reached at a very small number of drinks. Really serious drunkenness I find to be unbearable. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239/60 "2006-01-05T15:15:29Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > merely that if you don’t start you never have to worry about stopping. Which applies if you believe that if you start, then you may have trouble stopping. As my quoted statistics show, roughly 12% are heavy drinkers. > [@](#): > > have no problem doing those crazy fun things that most people seem to need alcohol to do. If I don’t need alcohol to relax and have fun, they why spend a lot of money to drink it and at the same time (potentially) damage my health? Again this comes down to the equivocation that if you start drinking, you’ll end up a frequent drinker. Since I don’t know you, I can’t judge your risk of that happening, but I know plenty of people (college students) who drink 3-4 beers on the weekend, and not every weekend at that. Another point of contention is that although some people may need alcohol to have fun, many just drink it to have a different kind of fun. One can have fun without, say, playing video games, but that doesn’t mean people play because that’s the only way to have fun. My disagreement is with your dichotomy between drinkers and non-drinkers, whereas I see it as a dose-related thing. The risk chart is not bimodal where there’s a sudden jump from 0 drinks/year to 3 drinks/year, unless you belong to the pretty small minority of people with pre-existing liver conditons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-to-be-a-freak-to-avoid-alcohol-in-britain/338239.md?page=4)