# Would you kill your best friend to save him/her from pain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871 "2009-07-22T16:49:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/21 "2009-07-22T19:26:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In this scenario, that has a real movie villian feel to it actually. 🙂 > > “What, you say you can’t take the pain? Here, I’ll help.” > > - Hands the pinned guy with two broken arms a knife \* > > - Walks off as the pinned man screams for help behind him \* Now now, this is my _friend_. If they screamed really loud for help, I’d turn around and help them kill themself. For people who are _not_ my friend, I carefully put the knife _just_ out of reach. Bwahahahaha! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/22 "2009-07-22T19:26:38Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > This may be suited for IMHO, but I’m posting here in GD instead, since it’s a weighty topic: > > (1) Scenario #1: You and your best friend (or spouse, child, whatever) are hiking deep in the woods when suddenly, a tree falls on your friend and pins him to the ground. You can see that he is severely injured and in great pain, you have no way to contact the outside world (you left your cell phone in the car) and you’re too far away from help for you to hike out and get help before he dies. (Let’s assume you have psychic powers and know this already.) However, you do have a six-inch knife which could end your friend’s suffering by cutting his throat, thus sparing him/her from hours or possibly days of agony. Do you think you could draw the blade? No. Who knows when help may come? > [@](#): > > (2) Scenario #2: You and your _two_ best friends are in a helicopter crash deep in the woods, once again, far from human contact. Both friends are trapped, but they’re stuck in the wreckage in such a way that to save one would require you to kill and/or permanently paralyze the other. If you do nothing, though, both will die. Could you choose to save one friend’s life by ending the other? Or would you do nothing. Again, who knows when help may come? If time is of the essence - say the helicopter is going to blow up imminently - then I rescue one. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/23 "2009-07-22T20:15:57Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Tell me more about this “kill **and** [del]/or[/del] permanently paralyze the other.” > > That’s some ballsy wickedness right there. It’s your choice, to determine which scenario exists. Personally, I believe that paralysis is a _much_ worse fate than death, and I’d do anything to prevent a friend from having to live without motion in his/her limbs – up to and including killing him, if he/she wished me to do so. Naturally, this is an entirely hypothetical exercise. And to make it even _more_ wicked, let’s assume that your “friend” in each scenario is unable to communicate what they want you to do, since they’re delirious & screaming in pain and all that. All you have to go on is what you _think_ your friend would want you to do. How 'bout that? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/24 "2009-07-22T20:37:52Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Naturally, this is an entirely hypothetical exercise. And to make it even _more_ wicked, let’s assume that your “friend” in each scenario is unable to communicate what they want you to do, since they’re delirious & screaming in pain and all that. All you have to go on is what you _think_ your friend would want you to do. How 'bout that? 🆒 Then I don’t kill him. If he wants to die, he can always kill himself or have me kill him later - he can even have me roll his wheelchair back to the woods and slit his throat there then, after discussing it rationally. That’s in the paralysis scenario, that is. In the “death” scenario, the options are “kill him quick” or “let him die slowly”, correct? In which case he’s not going to scream wildly forever - eventually he’s going to get tired out. Then I can lay out the options to him, and have him communicate his desires to me then. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/25 "2009-07-23T01:20:38Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > In the “death” scenario, the options are “kill him quick” or “let him die slowly”, correct? In which case he’s not going to scream wildly forever - eventually he’s going to get tired out. Then I can lay out the options to him, and have him communicate his desires to me then. In essence, yes. However, the dilemma presumes that your friend is either unconscious, delirious, or in so much pain that he/she _cannot_ communicate their desire to you, and you have to act without knowing what they want you to do, if anything. If you weren’t _certain_ of what they wanted, would you still draw the blade? (Probably a bit too hypothetical, now that I think about it…in such an extreme crisis, the “friends” would probably be able to communicate somehow, if only at the most basic and rudimentary level…never been in a situation like this, so how would I know?) ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/26 "2009-07-23T02:08:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In this scenario, that has a real movie villian feel to it actually. 🙂 > > “What, you say you can’t take the pain? Here, I’ll help.” > > - Hands the pinned guy with two broken arms a knife \* > > - Walks off as the pinned man screams for help behind him \* So if he’s got two broken arms, how does he hold the knife? Or is that your point? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/27 "2009-07-23T02:12:22Z")
Posted by **pravnik** in the other thread: > [@](#): > > Would I shoot my child if he was trapped in a burning car? > > Well, I wouldn’t shoot him right away. I’d fire a warning shot first, just to let him know I was serious. Then, if it absolutely couldn’t be helped, I’d try to shoot him in the leg or something, just to disable him long enough for me to get away. This quote still makes me giggle. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/28 "2009-07-23T02:15:44Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > So if he’s got two broken arms, how does he hold the knife? > > Or is that your point? That is indeed the point. Handing someone with broken or pinned arms a knife so he can kill himself is more of a way to screw with him than to give him a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/29 "2009-07-23T02:35:44Z")
I’d get my Jigsaw puppet ready. He may die horribly, but I’d want him to learn a valuable lesson about the preciousness of life, first. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/30 "2009-07-23T02:44:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d get my Jigsaw puppet ready. He may die horribly, but I’d want him to learn a valuable lesson about the preciousness of life, first. Okay, maybe it’s the fact that I was just working on a really big glue project, but this one made me giggle even more than **pravnik** ’s quote. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/31 "2009-07-23T02:53:21Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > In essence, yes. However, the dilemma presumes that your friend is either unconscious, delirious, or in so much pain that he/she _cannot_ communicate their desire to you, and you have to act without knowing what they want you to do, if anything. If you weren’t _certain_ of what they wanted, would you still draw the blade? > > (Probably a bit too hypothetical, now that I think about it…in such an extreme crisis, the “friends” would probably be able to communicate somehow, if only at the most basic and rudimentary level…never been in a situation like this, so how would I know?) Then as I said in the bit you didn’t quote, I don’t kill him. You might have better luck if you smashed my child under a tree (if I had a child, anyway) - then at least I’m the kid’s guardian. I have no semblance of a right to make the decision of life or death for my friend. If you kill a man who asks for it, you’re doing it for his own good. If you kill a man who doesn’t ask for it, you’re killing him for _your_ benefit - _you_ will feel better to know he’s not suffering. It’s got nothing to do with what _he_ wants at that point - it’s completely selfish. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/32 "2009-07-23T04:37:23Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If you kill a man who doesn’t ask for it, you’re killing him for _your_ benefit - _you_ will feel better to know he’s not suffering. It’s got nothing to do with what _he_ wants at that point - it’s completely selfish. Hmm? I don’t get it…how is it selfish to save someone you love from unnecessary pain? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/33 "2009-07-23T05:08:54Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Hmm? I don’t get it…how is it selfish to save someone you love from unnecessary pain? How do you know it’s unnecessary? You have no way of knowing whether or not he could survive. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/34 "2009-07-23T05:41:13Z")
Is it a given here that regardless of the choice we make, there are no later legal repercussions? Because I certainly don’t think saving a friend a few hours of pain is worth giving up years of my life for. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/35 "2009-07-23T05:52:38Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Is it a given here that regardless of the choice we make, there are no later legal repercussions? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/36 "2009-07-23T16:54:28Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Hmm? I don’t get it…how is it selfish to save someone you love from unnecessary pain? Because you are making this decision without taking into consideration whether _they_ think it’s a necessary pain. It’s entirely possible that they fear death enough, and are hopeful enough for rescue and eventual recovery _regardless_ of their suffering now, that they’d much rather suffer than die. This could be the case - you don’t know otherwise, in this hypothetical you set forth. So, given that, why exactly are you killing him again? It’s not because he’d rather die. It’s because _you_ feel bad about his suffering. It’s because you -perhaps incorrectly!- think that he’d be better off dead, and _you_ would feel better knowing that he’s not suffering anymore. In short, the decision _can’t_ be about his own good, because you don’t know what he’d consider good. The only person that you actually know you’re helping is you, and you alone. Thus: selfish. (The situation is, as noted, _entirely_ different if they’re coherent and begging for death - at least if you’re reasonably certain that they’re in their right mind at the time.) ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871/37 "2009-07-25T16:18:58Z")
No I wouldn’t,you never know whats going to happen next. How would you feel if you killed your friend and then twenty minutes later you became aware of an armed forces casevac excercise in the remote area you’re in with helicopters,para medics and heavy lifting equipment? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-kill-your-best-friend-to-save-him-her-from-pain/503871.md?page=1)