# Would you knowingly let a straight female stranger unknowingly marry a gay man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492 "2010-08-17T02:22:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/201 "2010-08-19T11:50:16Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@spark240](#): > > > > Many feel that “betraying” the son in such a case _would be_ protecting his welfare, since the likely outcome of his getting his way is, in time, going to be worse _for him_ than torpedoing his plan now. > > If that’s how you think you can best help your son, then go for it. And don’t put betray in quotes. It’s what you’d be doing if you weren’t looking out for your son, but his future wife instead, which is what the people in this thread are saying they’d be doing. Two can play that game. Those who would defend a rapist are themselves guilty of rape. So if you’d rather be a rapist rather than betray someone in your family, have at it. Just don’t expect society not to treat you like shit for doing it. The son’s career as a military officer, even as family, is less important than preventing a moral depravity. It’s not like the son is going to die if I do this. His life will be fine. She’ll be raped. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/202 "2010-08-19T12:05:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Two can play that game. Those who would defend a rapist are themselves guilty of rape. So if you’d rather be a rapist rather than betray someone in your family, have at it. Just don’t expect society not to treat you like shit for doing it. I never said that I’d defend a rapist. I said that there was a line that I wouldn’t cross. > [@BigT](#): > > The son’s career as a military officer, even as family, is less important than preventing a moral depravity. It’s not like the son is going to die if I do this. His life will be fine. She’ll be raped. Don’t mean to shove a foot up the ass of your absurd, pulpit-slamming tirade but throwing the word “rape” into your argument doesn’t give it extra merit. You’re suggesting that every gay man or woman who’s married the opposite gender was a rapist and if I were the type to be offended by anything this would probably be one of the things I’d be offended by. You’re performing no less than an intellectual rape against those who have actually been raped by taking the stance that you are. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/203 "2010-08-19T12:21:36Z")
I wouldn’t tell the girl myself, but that doesn’t mean I’m okay with this. I’d be going to _war_ with Todd. And I think I’d have a far better chance of putting a stop to this than by approaching the girl directly. If you were this girl, engaged and planning your wedding, and some near-stranger approached you with this unbelievable information…would you instantly derail the happy train, or would you think she was a crazy old bat who’s out to hurt your beloved? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/204 "2010-08-19T13:45:33Z")
If it was my fiance’s mom, and she hadn’t previously seemed like an insane lunatic, I’d probably give her word some credence. **AClockworkMelon** , I am lucky that in my case this is very, very rarely an issue, but when there’s a situation where I have to choose between my spouse or the rest of my family, my spouse comes first. Always. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/205 "2010-08-19T14:23:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > No, dear. The disbelief was around warning a complete stranger while outing a loved one who doesn’t want to be outed. Not just warning a complete stranger about some potential impending sadness. > > There is zero moral difference here. You are watching one person fuck over another person. It’s morally irrelevant whether the one doing the fucking is a loved one. It’s not ok to let loved ones ruin innocent people’s lives just because they are loved one. That is a fucked up, broken ethos. If you can’t see that, you need Jesus. If you feel your obligation morally to inform people of the truth is completely independent of your relationship to them, you need Jesus and some fresh air. The principle of telling people the truth, and how running your damn mouth about other people’s marriages actually shakes out in real life are entirely different. You’re not doing anybody any favors. > [@Magiver](#): > > Child molesters probably don’t want to be outed either. Deliberately engaging in an activity that most people would be harmed by has no shield of confidentiality. Oh please. I’ve already said if someone were in danger, I’d say something. Otherwise all you’re doing here is busybodying your way into someone’s potentially hurt feelings about her husband not loving her. > [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I wouldn’t tell the girl myself, but that doesn’t mean I’m okay with this. I’d be going to _war_ with Todd. And I think I’d have a far better chance of putting a stop to this than by approaching the girl directly. > > If you were this girl, engaged and planning your wedding, and some near-stranger approached you with this unbelievable information…would you instantly derail the happy train, or would you think she was a crazy old bat who’s out to hurt your beloved? Seriously! Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/206 "2010-08-19T14:47:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > > > I wouldn’t tell the girl myself, but that doesn’t mean I’m okay with this. I’d be going to _war_ with Todd. And I think I’d have a far better chance of putting a stop to this than by approaching the girl directly. > > > > If you were this girl, engaged and planning your wedding, and some near-stranger approached you with this unbelievable information…would you instantly derail the happy train, or would you think she was a crazy old bat who’s out to hurt your beloved? > > Seriously! Yeesh. Brenda’s choice isn’t simply to tell Abby straight out, or do nothing. She could start by not collaborating further in the deception, and effectively outing herself, for example. (Does Todd think she’ll pretend her partner is her cousin for the rest of her life?) > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Oh please. I’ve already said if someone were in danger, I’d say something. Otherwise all you’re doing here is busybodying your way into someone’s potentially hurt feelings about her husband not loving her. Do you expect a long-term resolution of this situation that does not involve hurt feelings? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/207 "2010-08-19T15:17:24Z")
It’s not her husband, it’s her fiance, which IMO is a big, big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/208 "2010-08-19T16:07:24Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > On OkCupid one of the questions is “Would you lie in court to protect a SO?” When I read that I thought to myself “What?! There are people who _wouldn’t_?” Well, I guess I found 'em. > > Last night I was hanging out with friends and I brought this thread up. They all seemed flabbergasted at the idea of betraying a loved one’s trust, too. I’ll say it again: I’m glad I don’t have friends or family like the people in this thread. I expect my loved ones to look out for me. Yes, even at the expense of a stranger. I find that attitude disgustingly immature. Personally, \*I \*can’t believe that there is someone who’d let someone else suffer so that someone they love can get away with something terrible, just because they like the asshole more than the stranger. I have no obligation not to betray anyone’s “trust” when it involves a secret this disgusting, i.e., another person being abused this way. > [@TruCelt](#): > > Except for the DADT thing. Though, like I said, he might be able to get out of that just by being engaged to marry a woman. That’s still fairly shitty for the woman concerned, but not as much as marrying her - and it’s not like the son invented DADT. Is being married even a defense to DADT? Somehow, I doubt it. Otherwise he could just be single and celibate and deny being gay. > [@marshmallow](#): > > If some people in this thread actually think this guy is an evil sociopath (a possibility I will grant), why the heck would you give him an ultimatum and threaten to tell her in a week if he doesn’t? Who’s saying he’s a sociopath? I just think he’s a disgustingly selfish douchewad. > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > The principle of telling people the truth, and how running your damn mouth about other people’s marriages actually shakes out in real life are entirely different. You’re not doing anybody any favors. There’s a huge difference between destroying a marriage that’s “working,” at least on the surface, and warning someone that they’re being scammed into a sham marriage by someone who can never truly love them and is using them like a piece of meat. ---
**Author:** ![fervour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@fervour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fervour)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/209 "2010-08-19T20:33:19Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > . . . > If you were this girl, engaged and planning your wedding, and some near-stranger approached you with this unbelievable information…would you instantly derail the happy train, or would you think she was a crazy old bat who’s out to hurt your beloved? There aren’t many people who would be in a position to share this information with Abby —certainly no stranger has the proper standing. Butting into Abby’s business would likely be perceived as a low insult. Such a person would be saying, “You’re a stupid girl who is incapable of choosing a good husband.” And why should she believe a stranger who displays such a stunning lack of decorum? The question asked is, “Would you knowingly let a straight female stranger unknowingly marry a gay man?” But there’s no way you can know what a stranger knows. The talk of Brenda is hearsay. Because you only have hearsay, you keep your mouth shut. Brenda could be correct. Abby could have no idea about the proclivities of Todd. But by Brenda’s own admission she doesn’t know Abby. For all you know, Abby is using Todd to get out of her own situation. People get married for lots of reasons. One would hope that Abby and Todd have shared what each of them needs out of marriage. It is up to them to discover and disclose and to decide whether they want to marry. Abby’s best girl friend is the only person I can think of who would have the relationship to discuss such an issue. Coming from Abby’s parents, it would be received as a no-confidence vote. Coming from a male friend could bring up other issues/accusations. I don’t think Abby could hear it from Brenda even if Brenda wanted to share the info. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/210 "2010-08-19T20:59:42Z")
I’m not saying I’d \*prevent \*Meatshield Bitch from marrying Gay Asshole. I would just ensure that Meatshield Bitch \*knows \*exactly how Gay Asshole is viewing her: i.e., as a fucking object to use to advance his career. If she still wants to marry him, that’s her own business. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/211 "2010-08-20T03:58:41Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > > > Lying in court would NOT be saving them. If a loved one has done something illegal, they need to pay the consequences. You’re not helping a loved one by enabling their destructive behaviour. > > :rolleyes: Do, prey tell, explain to me how you are “saving” them then. I am dying to hear the masterful and superior reasons from someone who has absolutely no qualms in not only watching, but helping his friends screw over other people. The needle on your moral compass is nonexistent. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/212 "2010-08-20T04:21:20Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > :rolleyes: > > Do, prey tell, explain to me how you are “saving” them then. I am dying to hear the masterful and superior reasons from someone who has absolutely no qualms in not only watching, but helping his friends screw over other people. > > The needle on your moral compass is nonexistent. I seriously need to provide a list of hypotheticals in which I’d lie in court to save a loved one? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/213 "2010-08-20T05:19:25Z")
Your sister throws a chicken bone out the window of your truck, and… Sorry, wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/214 "2010-08-20T06:27:01Z")
I guess I could see sending an anonymous PS your hubby’s a homo note. (Maybe hallmark has a card.) But to tell the woman straight up sounds to me like a bad idea all around. And I think everyone who thinks they’re going to get a tearful hug and heartfelt gratitude for saving her from an awful mistake have been watching way the fuck too regency era films. Besides, the appropriate place for such a statement is just after “Speak now or forever hold your piece” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/215 "2010-08-20T07:08:22Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I guess I could see sending an anonymous PS your hubby’s a homo note. (Maybe hallmark has a card.) But to tell the woman straight up sounds to me like a bad idea all around. And I think everyone who thinks they’re going to get a tearful hug and heartfelt gratitude for saving her from an awful mistake have been watching way the fuck too regency era films. Besides, the appropriate place for such a statement is just after “Speak now or forever hold your piece” Waiting until the marriage ceremony to announce this? why not shoot the bride with a paintball gun while you’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/216 "2010-08-20T07:30:58Z")
Late to the party, but if I were in your friend’s shoes, I’d be inclined to point out to Todd that there are other ways of creatively using a willing co-conspirator + marriage to achieve at least some of his goals, i.e. skirting DADT long enough until it is finally taken out back and shot, good riddance. As for the children he apparently wants…I would advise him against using such deceit as a means to procreation, ymmv. Other options include a straight-but-not-narrow girlfriend willing to get legally entangled for a good cause with a quick and clean divorce later. Or a DADT two-fer by marrying a lesbian also in the armed forces, also with a quick and clean divorce once the coast is clear. I’d only be half kidding with these recommendations, and if he wouldn’t consider them, I’d try to appeal to his sense of decency as a human being not to treat her in such a dishonest way. He would be the only person involved that I’d be willing to speak to about the matter. This consensual sort of marriage hijinks is something I’m perfectly comfortable with in cases like involving DADT, or immigration issues involving gay people who can’t legally marry their actual partners to get into the country, or any of the other reasonable needs that are not currently being met by the current state of the domestic partner/civil contract/marriage domain. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/217 "2010-08-20T08:43:51Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > > > And all this may be much further down the road. How do you keep a straight face a year in? Five years? Ten? When he’s got a piece on the side? > > I have an Uncle Scotty who’s in his mid-thirties and is currently dating a 20-year old. He cheats on her. A lot. She has no idea. She thinks this guy is her prince charming. She thinks he loves her. > > But I can keep a straight face just fine. His cheating doesn’t even come into mind while I’m with them. I think what he’s doing is rotten. But I wouldn’t betray him. I know, I know. I’m a monster. I’ve never cheated on anyone and don’t plan to but I’m glad that I have friends who wouldn’t betray me, who’d lie for me, who’d bury hookers with me (that last one was a joke), etc. If he’d betray her, what makes you think that he wouldn’t betray you? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/218 "2010-08-20T10:35:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If he’d betray her, what makes you think that he wouldn’t betray you? Good question. I’ve got no real answer. But I do know that he, just like just about every other member of my family and friends, wouldn’t tell a hypothetical SO if I was, in fact, betraying her. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > In a way I love my friends more than I think I could ever love a SO. I can see myself cheating on a future wife far easier than I can see myself betraying a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/219 "2010-08-20T14:29:34Z")
I’m sure the girl your scumbag uncle is cheating on thinks he wouldn’t betray her either. If she can’t trust him, then neither can you. You seem to have developed a perception somewhere along the line that ethical obligations essentially boil down to a sort of mafioso code of silence and conspiracy between “bros.” That’s not morality, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/220 "2010-08-20T14:32:19Z")
Incidentally, you’re over-romanticizing the bond you think you have with your friends. That’s because you’re 20. You’ll grow out of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492.md?page=12)