# Would you knowingly let a straight female stranger unknowingly marry a gay man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492 "2010-08-17T02:22:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/41 "2010-08-17T14:22:35Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Look, love in marriage is a modern thing. Not hating each other is a bonus… let them sort it out. Word. > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > There are three separate Rhymer rules that would prohibit me from saying anything. > > Let’s hear them. Let’s not. Edit: Too late… I wonder if the same folks who would intervene would also do so if they knew for a fact that Todd was having an affair, was an emotional cripple, admitted he was still in love with his ex girlfriend, or some other such that roughly means he is not in love with her. In love, to be clear, as opposed to simply love. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/42 "2010-08-17T14:25:08Z")
Read Todd the riot act. He’s not only using this poor woman and destroying her life, he’s screwing up his own life. Does he really think he’s going to be happy married to someone he doesn’t love? It’s 2010 – he can find someone he does love and even marry them and raise children together. And of course, Brenda, more than most people, can back that up. "Yes, Todd, I was gay and married to a straight person. And you know what I did when I realized it? I ended the marriage. And then I found someone who did make me happy. “If you’re going to make a big mistake in your life, for Pete’s sake at least make an original mistake, rather than just repeating mine.” And of course, Brenda’s got to out herself and partner to Abby (I suppose in dire necessity she could use it as a bargaining chip) ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/43 "2010-08-17T14:26:08Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > There are three separate Rhymer rules that would prohibit me from saying anything. > > Let’s hear them. Seconded. If there’s a Rhymer Ten Commandments, the world needs to know. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/44 "2010-08-17T14:27:03Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > > But when it is the _one_ situation where two people have decided to come together as one unit, them against the world…that is one of those times you wanna put your helping hands in your pockets and keep it moving. > > It seems like the concept of informed consent must apply here somewhere. Surely you can imagine \*some \*scenario where you would intervene. What if he had another wife? What if he were an escaped murderer? > > Can it truly be said that \*they \*have decided to come together as a unit if \*she \*is not aware of all the pertinent facts? Yep, I can imagine all kinds of scenarios where I would intervene. Oh, I see, you are a murderer. Well, I have to tell. I mean, you might murder the children some day. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/45 "2010-08-17T14:27:12Z")
Parties to a marriage deserve to know about this sort of thing before tying the knot. Speak with them. If the bride already knows, then no harm is done. If the bride did not previously know, then at least now she would be in the position of making an informed decision. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/46 "2010-08-17T14:28:00Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > > Let’s hear them. > > Seconded. If there’s a Rhymer Ten Commandments, the world needs to know. I do, in fact, have 87 rules for living, though I can’t rattle 'em all off just like that. (My baby sister once did, but she was just trying to demonstrate that she’s smarter than me. Why, I don’t know, as no one has any doubt.) Rule 1 is “Never stick your tongue in a toaster” – given primacy so that there’s at least one rule I never break. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/47 "2010-08-17T14:36:58Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Parties to a marriage deserve to know about this sort of thing before tying the knot. > > Speak with them. If the bride already knows, then no harm is done. If the bride did not previously know, then at least now she would be in the position of making an informed decision. What about MOL’s point? Does she deserve to know if he is having an affair? What if he confides that he is in love with another women but has never touched her and has no intention of acting on his feelings. What if he admits that white poodles make his dick hard? What if he confesses that he can’t get off without daydreaming of dead bunnies? At what point do you realize that Amy is a grown woman entering a union of trust with another consenting adult? It is up to her to decide if she trusts the man enough to marry him. She is supposed to be making a decision to join with someone for better or for worse, and it is her job to decide with the info that she gathers from her time with him, her connection with him and her bond with him whether or not she wants to go forth with that union. She doesn’t need a report from folks that know things abutt him that she hasn’t discovered in her own relationship with him which is supposed to trump all others. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/48 "2010-08-17T14:44:11Z")
Get real. This is not a union of trust. I can’t say from a parents viewpoint but if Todd were a friend of mine and went through with this, I would never speak to him again. I can’t stand liars and really have no sympathy for someone lying about being gay and marrying to hide it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/49 "2010-08-17T14:49:56Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > At what point do you realize that Amy is a grown woman entering a union of trust with another consenting adult? At what point do you realize that if he is lying to her it is not a union of trust? And that uninformed consent is no consent at all? Sure, she does not need to know every detail of his life, but his sexual orientation is pretty central to who he is, and the fact that he would lie to her about such a basic fact simply to further his own ends speaks loudly to his character. She needs to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/50 "2010-08-17T14:52:02Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Get real. This is not a union of trust. I can’t say from a parents viewpoint but if Todd were a friend of mine and went through with this, I would never speak to him again. I can’t stand liars and really have no sympathy for someone lying about being gay and marrying to hide it. Whether you’d let him do it and whether he’s being a complete douchecanoe are totally separate issues. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/51 "2010-08-17T14:52:30Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > > At what point do you realize that Amy is a grown woman entering a union of trust with another consenting adult? > > At what point do you realize that if he is lying to her it is not a union of trust? So? Is it your job to go outing everyone as frauds? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/52 "2010-08-17T14:52:34Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Get real. This is not a union of trust. I can’t say from a parents viewpoint but if Todd were a friend of mine and went through with this, I would never speak to him again. I can’t stand liars and really have no sympathy for someone lying about being gay and marrying to hide it. If you never want to speak to Todd again, that’s cool. Fuck Todd. But to out him because you ‘can’t stand liars’ is immature on some Holden Caulfield shit. For real. I hope you have a case of redbull and a working coffee maker, because you are in for a busy life going around outing all the liars you can’t stand. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/53 "2010-08-17T14:52:46Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > At what point do you realize that Amy is a grown woman entering a union of trust with another consenting adult? The circumstance described in the OP is not one of a union of trust. It is one of material deception that goes to the heart of the marriage contract. Consent means informed consent; uninformed consent is meaningless. I expect familes to look out for the health and well being of each other. Knowingly letting a potential family member fall in a pit by witholding information is reprehensible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/54 "2010-08-17T14:55:39Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I wonder if the same folks who would intervene would also do so if they knew for a fact that Todd was having an affair, I told a friend when her boyfriend was making out with another girl at a party. Does that count? > [@](#): > > was an emotional cripple, If he’s an emotional cripple, I’d assume this would be as apparent to her as it was to me. > [@](#): > > admitted he was still in love with his ex girlfriend, or some other such that roughly means he is not in love with her. I see no reason why still being in love with his ex would prevent him also being in love with his new, as long as he didn’t feel inclined to hurt her by acting on it without her approval. Again, the problem isn’t who he loves, it’s who he _doesn’t_ love. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/55 "2010-08-17T14:57:41Z")
Who’s answer would change if they were the mother of the deceived bride instead of the mother of the deceiving groom? ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/56 "2010-08-17T14:58:01Z")
I was married at the tender age of 20 to a man who did this exact same thing to me (except for the military and children thing). I am incredibly lucky that I did not have children, but five years into the marriage, I came home early from work and found my husband having sex with THREE other men. I cannot describe the devastation I went through. Another woman, I could understand and compete with but I not only did not feel adequate as a woman, I did not feel adequate as a wife and partner and human being. Everything I knew to be “true” – our love, our life, our future plans – EVERYTHING I believed in life, was destroyed. My core belief system in humanity was destroyed as I had put everything into my marriage and the idea that – like my parents – I would live with this man for the rest of my life and that my life would be built on our shared values and beliefs. For me, that was just over twenty years ago. Now, in my mid-40s, I am incredibly lucky I don’t have AIDS nor any other diseases. But back then, the pathology of AIDS was unknown and I had to get tested every six months for years because they didn’t know if the disease could lie dormant or not. Lastly is the subsequent twenty years after my divorce; still single and thus far unsuccessful in establishing or maintaining any long-term relationships due to trust issues and a massive fear of being deceived and hurt again. No children, no boyfriend, no family, no husband. And my ex-husband? Absolutely disappeared off the face of the earth (i.e., not Google-able). ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/57 "2010-08-17T14:58:18Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > [@Antinor01](#): > > > > Get real. This is not a union of trust. I can’t say from a parents viewpoint but if Todd were a friend of mine and went through with this, I would never speak to him again. I can’t stand liars and really have no sympathy for someone lying about being gay and marrying to hide it. > > If you never want to speak to Todd again, that’s cool. Fuck Todd. But to out him because you ‘can’t stand liars’ is immature on some Holden Caulfield shit. For real. I hope you have a case of redbull and a working coffee maker, because you are in for a busy life going around outing all the liars you can’t stand. When did I say anything about outing him? ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/58 "2010-08-17T15:03:32Z")
I’m not in the habit of inserting myself into other people’s lives and telling them what/how to do, but I think it is Brenda’s responsibility to explain to her son the negative and painful consequences of what he’s about to do. He’ll damage himself, trying to live a lie. He’ll damage – if not destroy – his naive little wife who may not understand that his lack of love and passion for her has NOTHING to do with her. He could possibly also damage all manner of extended friends/family relationships. Furthermore, I can’t think of a more effective way to fuck up your children than to bring them up within a lie and sham of a marriage and to pretend like Daddy is straight when Daddy is most certainly not. That will shake their little identities to the core and this dude is delusional if he thinks he can sustain a lie like this for the next 20 years or for the rest of his life. WTF does he think will happen… everyone who knows he’s gay will just cover for him and let him disrespect his wife and family? He should also sit down and watch Brokeback Mountain and try to see and understand the pain the wife went through when she started to realize something wasn’t quite right in MarriageVille. Dude needs to man up and take responsibility for who he is and how he wants to live his life. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/59 "2010-08-17T15:04:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > At what point do you realize that if he is lying to her it is not a union of trust? > > So? Is it your job to go outing everyone as frauds? No, it isn’t. What gave you that idea? It’s a particularly stupid one, if for no other reasons then that it assumes that everyone is a fraud, and I would somehow have access to that knowledge, as well as the ability to act on it. We’re not talking about everyone here, but one specific individual. It’s surprising that you haven’t picked up on that. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/60 "2010-08-17T15:06:17Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > I wonder if the same folks who would intervene would also do so if they knew for a fact that Todd was having an affair, > > I told a friend when her boyfriend was making out with another girl at a party. Does that count? Really now? If it were your friend who was doing the making out with another girl, would you tell his girlfriend? > [@](#): > > If he’s an emotional cripple, I’d assume this would be as apparent to her as it was to me. And if it’s not? Is it then your duty to make it so? > [@](#): > > I see no reason why still being in love with his ex would prevent him also being in love with his new, as long as he didn’t feel inclined to hurt her by acting on it without her approval. He can still be faithful to her if he’s gay. But enough zoning in too much on a relatively minor thing, and missing the point. I’m mainly curious about if people are _always_ so willing to butt their noses into other people’s business when there are liars afoot (Oh noez! Someone somewhere is being deceitful in a marriage!!!), or is the sexual orientation thing special? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492.md?page=4)