# Would you knowingly let a straight female stranger unknowingly marry a gay man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492 "2010-08-17T02:22:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/81 "2010-08-17T17:42:27Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > It’s stupid because 1) there are other ways to get a family and children if you want it that badly (look to NPH for example) 2) DADT may be repealed as early as next year. Why the rush to cover yourself for the military’s sake? Yeah, this is where I’m stuck. DADT is about to be repealed, and gay men have plenty of resources to have children. Why the hell is he doing this? Because it’s \*fun \*to end up with a bitter divorce, heavy alimony, and losing your kids? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/82 "2010-08-17T17:47:23Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > LOL, defrauding. You make it seem like he’s going clean out her checking account. > > Marriage, particularly if there will be children or if the marriage were to fail, is usually the single greatest financial decision a person makes in his or her life. People change or quit careers, people take on familial financial responsibilities, and people very often merge assets by law or equity. So if he admitted that he’s banging two other chicks, and will not stop throughout the marriage, ever, would you tell the fiancee? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/83 "2010-08-17T17:50:30Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Muffin](#): > > > > Marriage, particularly if there will be children or if the marriage were to fail, is usually the single greatest financial decision a person makes in his or her life. People change or quit careers, people take on familial financial responsibilities, and people very often merge assets by law or equity. > > So if he admitted that he’s banging two other chicks, and will not stop throughout the marriage, ever, would you tell the fiancee? I would – if only because of STDs, and such. However, I would feel far more devastated to find out that my husband was gay and was using me as a beard all along. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/84 "2010-08-17T18:02:08Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Muffin](#): > > > > Marriage, particularly if there will be children or if the marriage were to fail, is usually the single greatest financial decision a person makes in his or her life. People change or quit careers, people take on familial financial responsibilities, and people very often merge assets by law or equity. > > So if he admitted that he’s banging two other chicks, and will not stop throughout the marriage, ever, would you tell the fiancee? Damn straight I would tell. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/85 "2010-08-17T18:02:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > So if he admitted that he’s banging two other chicks, and will not stop throughout the marriage, ever, would you tell the fiancee? > > I would – if only because of STDs, and such. However, I would feel far more devastated to find out that my husband was gay and was using me as a beard all along. Oh really now? That’s your reason? STDs? So if these were the same two chicks he’d been banging with protection for years, is regularly tested and clean, then you wouldn’t say anything? The reason you would tell is because of STDs? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/86 "2010-08-17T18:11:24Z")
You don’t know how clean he is, and that’s really only a minor point anyway. The more major one is that he’s a cheater, and I won’t help a cheatter cheat. I’ve ben down that road more than once already. Covering for friends and helping them lie to their wives. Made me feel like shit. Never again. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/87 "2010-08-17T18:14:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > So if he admitted that he’s banging two other chicks, and will not stop throughout the marriage, ever, would you tell the fiancee? > > Damn straight I would tell. Well you, sir, are now proud recipient of my first annual Best Combination of Consistency and Being a Bona Fide Meddler award. I strongly suspect others who think it would be okay to out the gay man to his fiancee would _not_ say anything if he were cheating with women. Why do I think that? Well a lot of reasons, one of which is whenever this topic comes up around here (which is frequently enough), the general contention seems to be “butt out.” To your credit, you are frequently in those threads saying the right thing to do is put the offender on blast. Edit: > [@](#): > > You don’t know how clean he is, and that’s really only a minor point anyway. The more major one is that he’s a cheater, and I won’t help a cheatter cheat. Right. I agree that the issue is he’s a cheater, but I was pointing out that Guin’s garbage about STDs is ridiculous, and I don’t buy for one minute that _that_ is the issue for her. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/88 "2010-08-17T18:21:19Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Muffin](#): > > > > Marriage, particularly if there will be children or if the marriage were to fail, is usually the single greatest financial decision a person makes in his or her life. People change or quit careers, people take on familial financial responsibilities, and people very often merge assets by law or equity. > > So if he admitted that he’s banging two other chicks, and will not stop throughout the marriage, ever, would you tell the fiancee? Of course. Hopefully, they are poly or open, but if not, a huge, life altering train wreck could be avoided. In my opinion, members of a family have to look out for each other, so yes, I would ensure that the bride was able to make an informed decision on the single most important decision of her life. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/89 "2010-08-17T18:27:38Z")
You know, the fact that he’s gay is really the least of the problem. She’s about to marry a man who is comepletely without conscience. A man who could knowingly damn a woman to a life without real love, and a sham marriage. He plans to impregnate her and then eventually leave her, without her having the opportunity to walk into this with full knowledge of the situation. If he’s willing to do that to her, what sort of Father will he be? You should tell her. The step-Mom should tell her, everyone who has any knowledge of this should tell her. That poor girl. ETA NitPick: “Broodmare” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/90 "2010-08-17T18:34:19Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You know, the fact that he’s gay is really the least of the problem. She’s about to marry a man who is comepletely without conscience. A man who could knowingly damn a woman to a life without real love, and a sham marriage. Bingo. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/91 "2010-08-17T18:39:04Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Guinastasia](#): > > > > I would – if only because of STDs, and such. However, I would feel far more devastated to find out that my husband was gay and was using me as a beard all along. > > Oh really now? That’s your reason? STDs? So if these were the same two chicks he’d been banging with protection for years, is regularly tested and clean, then you wouldn’t say anything? The reason you would tell is because of STDs? Well let me ask YOU something – if you found out your SO was cheating, and your friends and/or acquaintances had known all along, you wouldn’t be pissed at them for not having let you know about it? Because I certainly would. I, personally, would want to know. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/92 "2010-08-17T18:40:07Z")
I think my first post in this thread, I said I wasn’t sure about telling the girl directly, but you know, in the scenario where I am a close family member of this person, I think I tell her. I mean, if I am about to get into a sham marriage that is almost certainly going to result in having children, I would like my family members to make me aware of this. I mean, it is my right to tell them to fuck off because I am going to get sham married anyway, but I would rather have the information than not have it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/93 "2010-08-17T19:24:04Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > No, it isn’t. That’s a huge leap in logic there. What you are doing is arguing from the specific to the general, and rather poorly. Just because I may behave in a certain specific case where fraud is an element does not mean that I would behave the same way in every case where fraud is an element. There are other factors involved. Again, I am surprised that this is not obvious to you. > > Sorry, what’s going on in your mind is not obvious to me. Nobody’s making any jumps in anything here. Yeah they are, and it’s you. You’re making the assumption that one kind of fraud is exactly identical to every other kind of fraud, and that my response should be the same in all cases. You have no basis for either of those assumptions. > [@](#): > > I’m trying to figure out why you think it’s okay to intervene in their relationship because he’s lying to her. Is it always okay to butt into your friends’ or relatives’ relationships because one of them is lying to their partner? Is it okay up until they’re getting married? Or does the lie have to be about sexual orientation? What? Are you cherrypicking which of my posts you read? Let me quote myself and you tell me what is unclear. [QUOTE=Me] At what point do you realize that if he is lying to her it is not a union of trust? And that uninformed consent is no consent at all? Sure, she does not need to know every detail of his life, but **his sexual orientation is pretty central to who he is** , and **the fact that he would lie to her about such a basic fact simply to further his own ends speaks loudly to his character.** She needs to hear it. [/QUOTE] 1. Where in there do I say anything about ridding the world of fraud? 2. Does it really escape your notice that one kind of lying can be different from another kind of lying? It’s not “because he’s lying to her”. It’s because he’s lying to her about something that is central to who he is as a person, and he is doing it to further his own ends, with no regard for the potential damage he is doing her. See\*\* Fried Dough Ho’s\*\* post above. You really need to stop making these blanket generalizations. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/94 "2010-08-17T19:40:20Z")
I have an aunt and uncle who are now divorced after almost 20 years of marriage because she found out he was gay. They have 2 kids. It was not a good situation, and not a particularly good marriage to begin with. If she honestly loves him and thinks she is getting into a traditional marriage, that is awful and I think the fact that Todd is willing to mess with this woman’s life to this degree speaks volumes about him. That was not the case in my family, my uncle I don’t think realized he was gay when he married her, but it was still a big ball of hurt for everyone involved. It is possible she knows what she is getting into, but if I was the stepmother I would be making attempts to make sure of that. I would talk to Todd and firmly tell him what an awful thing he is about to do. If he is under the impression that his stepmother did it so it must not be so bad, I would set him straight (ha) if that is not the case. I would also stress the impact this could have on his own life and happiness…does he want to live a sham for the rest of his life? He honestly never wants to be in a fully reciprocal relationship and is willing to prevent her from having that also? I would also not support or attend this wedding and if anyone asked me why, I would tell them. He intends to bring children into a family where he does not love their mother? I have a hard time believing that 5 or 10 years from now he is really going to be ok with this choice and will be faithful to her. He will resent her and she will wonder what she did. I know I am making assumptions here…again, if she is informed and is ok with the kind of love he does have for her, if any, that is different. If he really is just taking advantage of a naive girl, that is despicable. It appears to me from the description of how she talks about gay people that she would not willingly marry one, so that is what I am basing my opinion on. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/95 "2010-08-17T19:49:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > Oh really now? That’s your reason? STDs? So if these were the same two chicks he’d been banging with protection for years, is regularly tested and clean, then you wouldn’t say anything? The reason you would tell is because of STDs? > > Well let me ask YOU something – if you found out your SO was cheating, and your friends and/or acquaintances had known all along, you wouldn’t be pissed at them for not having let you know about it? Because I certainly would. > > I, personally, would want to know. I don’t know. I think I’d like to know, but I’m not sure. I’m also not sure if I would feel better or worse if I found out via someone other than my spouse telling me. Actually, I take that back. I would almost certainly feel worse. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/96 "2010-08-17T20:05:35Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You know, the fact that he’s gay is really the least of the problem. She’s about to marry a man who is comepletely without conscience. A man who could knowingly damn a woman to a life without real love, and a sham marriage. He plans to impregnate her and then eventually leave her, without her having the opportunity to walk into this with full knowledge of the situation. I’m going to stick my neck out and say the fact that he’s gay really IS the problem. People marry all the time for crazy reasons, but most at least try and convince themselves that it’s the right thing to do and it’ll all work out just fine, and I could easily imagine that is exactly what he’s trying to do to himself right now. He’s clearly not comfortable being gay and probably sees marriage as a solution. Well, I’m sure there’s enough divorced people on the board to vouch for the truth that marriage is never a ‘solution’ to a problem. And his gay ‘problem’ will not go away. And getting married will only make this worse, when he realises that marriage doesn’t fix it. We all know how this will end. He’ll leave her, or get found out, she’ll be devastated and take years to recover. Children or not. I’ve seen it happen enough times with gay friends and acquaintances. But I can also imagine that neither he nor her would listen to Brenda and both would end up hating her. So, um, yeah. No answers here. I might intervene if only because I’ve seen the devastation that **will** happen. And it will. It’s several magnitudes worse than warning a girlfriend about a philandering fiancee - in that scenario, you at least ‘hope’ he might change his ways. But this is only going to end one way. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/97 "2010-08-17T20:18:06Z")
Okay, how 'bout this: The problem isn’t that he’s gay as such, it’s that he’s keeping a significant, likely-deal breaking secret from her. How would we feel if he were: Married to another woman in another state Dying of an incurable disease Previously of a different gender (we had this as a separate thread not long ago) A concentration camp guard, participant at My Lai, or war criminal Killer who had not been convicted due to a technicality, or killer who has paid his debt to society (like Karla Homulka) Carrier of a significant genetic disease Klansman / Hells Angel I realize that these examples are somewhat heavy handed - I don’t equate being gay with being in the KKK. My point is merely that there are some things that would be dealbreakers, and the potential spouse deserves the right of full disclosure. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/98 "2010-08-17T20:19:42Z")
There’s no way I’d betray my family to a stranger. Todd is doing something shitty, but not shitty enough to warrant a betrayal of his trust. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/99 "2010-08-17T20:23:22Z")
What’s so fucking special about your family that you’d help one of them ruin somebody else’s life? How is a blood relationship an ethical justification for anything? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492/100 "2010-08-17T20:26:15Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > There’s no way I’d betray my family to a stranger. Todd is doing something shitty, but not shitty enough to warrant a betrayal of his trust. Sorry. I have three questions. 1. What trust would you be betraying? The fact that he’s a lying, manipulative scumbag? 2. Once they are married she is family. Now you have knowingly put a future family member at extreme risk of having her life blow up in her face. How would you feel about that? 3. You do realize that the OP is not a member of any of the families involved, and as such could not betray any family trust, no matter how immorally based, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-knowingly-let-a-straight-female-stranger-unknowingly-marry-a-gay-man/550492.md?page=6)