# Would you like to see your state/province divided? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733 "2012-01-07T15:22:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/41 "2012-01-08T09:06:04Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > What about you? Would you consider splitting your state or province up? Fuck no, Navarre is already small enough! We’d just be getting more politicians! Who needs more politicians? Ugh! Plus, how do you divide it? Along political lines, the half where the “two Navarres” are Basquist/Foralist and the one where they are Foralist/Socialist? Or along linguistic lines, by how much of the population speaks Basque? The hairpulling over who gets Pamplona would leave everybody with a centuries-long migraine. We’re still taking painkillers over territorial shuffles which took place in times of Mio Cid! > [@](#): > > Or merging it with another for administrative purposes? The current Spanish Constitution has several “temporary provisions”; the fourth one states that Navarre can become part of Euskadi if we want to. I’m a member and usually vote for the Foralist party, whose main target is the elimination of that provision; if it gets eliminated, the party is actually supposed to dissolve. So very much HELL NO. I don’t want to bore you with the reasons for it, but the tldr version is “for Navarre to become part of Euskadi would be akin to France becoming part of Monaco.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/42 "2012-01-08T14:48:51Z")
Tennessee needs to be split in 3: [ol] [li]Western Tennessee–large-scale agriculture. Heavily dominated by Memphis. Ultra-rural outside of that.[/li][li]Middle Tennessee–most heavily diversified part of the state. More urbanized.[/li][li]Eastern–a.k.a. The State Of Franklin: Mining, metals processing, tech & manufacturing, tourism. Run it from Chattanooga.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/43 "2012-01-08T15:12:27Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > He means in the electoral college, I think. The Electoral College is based on the total number of Representatives and Senators so it would have the same effect. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/44 "2012-01-08T15:45:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Realistically, I don’t think northern New York has enough to become a state on its own. But I think New York minus New York City would do okay. I think that you guys should stay united because New York State, including both NYC and upstate, shares a Dutch heritage which is very unique among U.S. States and may contribute to your success on the world stage. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/45 "2012-01-08T16:00:44Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I really don’t see how TBay is similar to Windsor, or how Sudbury is simiar to Sarnia. Both TBay and Sudbury are regional centres for mining and forestry, whereas Windsor is focused on automotive and Sarnia is pretty much limited to petrochemicals, Ah, the old distinctions-sans-difference. Now I’m convinced it’d be a FEROCIOUS intraprovincial argument, and Thunder Bay would be thoroughly despised. > [@](#): > > I have not come across anyone in northern Ontario proposing that any one city separate from the province, but I have come across a lot of ties between northern communities, ranging from the workforce in which it is common for people to move from one northern community to another (for example, I have lived in both Sudbury and Thunder Bay), You believe this constitutes evidence there wouldn’t be regional rivalries? Really? People in other places don’t move from town to town? Or don’t have interconnected economies? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/46 "2012-01-08T16:36:43Z")
I’m not a resident of Ontario, but I’ve spent a lot of time there. It seems to me that Port Huron-Detroit-Sarnia-Windsor-London-Toronto-Buffalo is part of a fairly cohesive socio-economic region. I think Sarnia-Windsor would want to be drawn into a new Southern Ontario province. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/47 "2012-01-08T17:30:42Z")
I’d say just get rid of states altogether. I can’t think of a thing states do that couldn’t better be handled either at a higher (Federal) or lower (city/county) level. And states very often block localities from doing things that would benefit the localities: I grew up in northern Virginia, and every time a local city or county wanted to increase its sales tax by a penny to pay for better transit, Richmond would block it. Or more currently, a number of state governments have blocked a number of cities from setting up free or low-cost municipal wi-fi networks. (Pennsylvania and Philadelphia come to mind, IIRC.) Obviously there’s exactly zero chance that we’ll abandon states as a unit of government, but IMHO we’d be much better off if we could. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/48 "2012-01-08T19:34:33Z")
[Too damn many states already](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/49 "2012-01-08T20:02:49Z")
Like the OP, I live in Missouri. From a cultural perspective I see some benefit to subdividing. But not much. The real problem is not the too-large states out west but rather the too-small states back east. Combine ME, VT, RI, CT, & MA into a single state. Combine TN & KY. Likewise WV, VA, MD, & DE. We need one Carolina, not two. MS & AL are indistinguishable anyhow, why should they not be just one (benighted) state? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/50 "2012-01-08T20:07:28Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > [Too damn many states already](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America). I don’t see how that has much bearing, if any, on how many states or other kinds of administrative/legislative subdivisions there should be. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/51 "2012-01-08T20:34:49Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > [Too damn many states already](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America). That book’s awfully old. And it didn’t age well. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/52 "2012-01-08T20:35:25Z")
I would like for Florida to be comprised of the coast and 10 miles inland, as one state. Everything on the inside can go to Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/53 "2012-01-08T21:09:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Toronto is one city, and yet people downtown think people in Etobicoke or North York are suburban scum (they are not actually suburbs, they’re part of the city.) You can forget any feeling of admiration between Toronto and its actual suburbs; to Torontonians, the suburban cities are packed with hideous redneck hillbillies, and to the suburban cities, Toronto is a cesspool of homeless criminals. If you made the GTA a province they’d hate each other even more. This is the sort of thing that worries me about trying to peel off certain cities. St. Louis seems to be the whipping boy of Missouri politics, but I don’t expect it’s rural Missouri that’s mostly likely to be out to get it. Rather, it’s the suburbs around it, and the influence of people who want to work in the city but not pay taxes there (see the use of a state referendum to get rid of the city’s earnings tax). Of course, if a State of St. Louis might be able to stand up to it better, that means the suburbs will block secession in the state legislature. This kind of dynamic probably applies to a score of cases just at this time. > [@gaffa](#): > > [Too damn many states already](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America). Wow, that thesis is a mess. Too much of a hard-borders assumption as opposed to gradient bleeds. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/54 "2012-01-08T21:14:02Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > This is the sort of thing that worries me about trying to peel off certain cities. St. Louis seems to be the whipping boy of Missouri politics, but I don’t expect it’s rural Missouri that’s mostly likely to be out to get it. Rather, it’s the suburbs around it, and the influence of people who want to work There’s never a good reason to draw a political border through a conurbation, especially if the political entities are sovereign. One of the worst aspects of current state borders is where they divide metro areas. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/55 "2012-01-08T21:30:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That book’s awfully old. And it didn’t age well. It is dated, but surprisingly little for being 30 years old and limiting itself to 9 nations. The only glaring errors I see (in Canada and the USA) as long as you limit it to 9 nations are that the I-4 corridor definitely isn’t in Dixie any more, the Foundry’s boundaries are pretty good but it needs a new name, and the increasing reliance on fossil fuels in the northern Empty Quarter are separating it further than it previously was from the tourism-reliant southern Empty Quarter. I’d even defend _to an extent_ the grouping of the Caribbean and Central America (I’d also add Columbia) despite their political separations. At least from my Central Floridian perspective, you see people with relatives from multiple countries throughout the region and restaurants that specialize in, say, both Columbian and Cuban food, to an extent that you _don’t_ see between them and Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/56 "2012-01-08T21:42:23Z")
Colorado very neatly divides into three states: the Plains, the Front Range, and everything west of the Front Range. Problem is, only the middle one would have any population to speak of. Of Colorardo’s ~5.1 million people, about 4.3 million of them live in the Front Range. I suppose the Plains could merge with western Kansas and Nebraska, and eastern Wyoming. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/57 "2012-01-08T21:52:22Z")
Going back at the OP I’d ask: What problem(s) are we trying to solve? Or are we just polling for local grievances around the world? e.g. are we trying to homogenize the per-capita representation in the US Senate? Create ethnically or culturally homogenous entities? Create ethnically and culturally \*\*non-\*\*homogenous entities? Settle old scores? Break existing political log jams with dynamite? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/58 "2012-01-08T22:13:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That book’s awfully old. And it didn’t age well. It was an interesting read though. Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing southern Illinois allowed to flounder around on it’s own without Chicago just out of spite. But the Balkan state it would undoubtedly become would make getting to St. Louis somewhat difficult. My solution to gerrymandering would be that no district would be allowed to have more than 4 right-angle corners. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/59 "2012-01-08T22:55:32Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Going back at the OP I’d ask: What problem(s) are we trying to solve? Or are we just polling for local grievances around the world? > > e.g. are we trying to homogenize the per-capita representation in the US Senate? Create ethnically or culturally homogenous entities? Create ethnically and culturally \*\*non-\*\*homogenous entities? Settle old scores? Break existing political log jams with dynamite? Well, any or all of the above. Which would you want to do? I hear people say the US states represent…something, but it’s not clear what. They’re not distinct cultures, they’re not districts of equal size, they’re not even metropolis-defined; they’re just kind of legacies. So what should they represent? Here’s a concern you didn’t mention, LSLGuy: > [@Acsenray](#): > > There’s never a good reason to draw a political border through a conurbation, especially if the political entities are sovereign. One of the worst aspects of current state borders is where they divide metro areas. Could you defend why splitting conurbations is bad? ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733/60 "2012-01-08T23:22:31Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The current states of Oregon and Washington make no sense. Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon should be split off and joined to form a new state of Western Idaho. Noooo!! Not a fourth Idaho! There are already 3 too many. North Idaho (for some reason no one ever talks about \*\* northern\*\* Idaho) - Capital: Spokane Eastern Idaho - Capital: Salt Lake City Southern Idaho - Capital: Boise Actually, it would make more sense to combine the three northwest states into one (and call it Oregon, of course 😉 ) Then maybe we sensible folks from Oregon and Washington could drag those Idaho neanderthals kicking & screaming into the 21st century. SS Raised in Idaho, domiciled in Oregon [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-like-to-see-your-state-province-divided/608733.md?page=4)