# Would you oppose inter-species unions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596 "2010-07-05T12:31:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/21 "2010-07-05T20:12:38Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But the point is, if the species is a close enough relative that we could interbreed with it, it couldn’t look radically alien, it would look at least as human as a chimpanzee. > > It’s certainly possible that this hominid species would have species-specific displays that would make them look really weird to us–odd hair arrangements, colored skin patches, and so on. Closely related monkey species often have very different mustaches and such to make interspecific breeding less likely. Often these are secondary sexual characteristics. > > But these sorts of species markers evolve when closely related species come in contact with each other. So if these “aliens” are species that lived on earth and were in contact with the ancestors of humans before the Ancients transplanted them, they might have evolved these markers to make them look less like humans, and we might have evolved markers to make us look less like them. > > But the main point is that if we are capable of interbreeding with them, they aren’t really aliens, they’re just a different kind of human. You make a good point, and I think the better “hand waving” answer is that we have some technology that allows interbreeding between the two species. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/22 "2010-07-05T20:53:08Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I think **rishathra** (defined as “sexual practice outside one’s own species but within the intelligent hominids”) is okay. > > [Rishathra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishathra) > > Now we just need to wait a few hundred thousand years for mankind to speciate, then we can indulge. “Our form of foreplay may be dangerous to you.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/23 "2010-07-05T20:54:38Z")
> [@Bestiality: Always wrong?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bestiality-always-wrong/545597/13): > > Bestiality is icky to me for a lot of reasons, but in my mind the main reason bestiality is _immoral_ is because animals don’t have the standing to consent to a sexual relationship with a human being. Nor to one of their own species. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/24 "2010-07-06T01:56:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As for humanity, I regard it as deeply flawed and as something that should be replaced anyway. Preferably, in the “changed into something better” style of replacement, and not the “bombed itself to extinction and was replaced by mutant rats” version. The species isn’t worth preserving. This begs the question of whether you’re doing your part to promote human extinction. It could be as simple as smoking and drinking to excess. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/25 "2010-07-06T02:14:33Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > This begs the question of whether you’re doing your part to promote human extinction. It could be as simple as smoking and drinking to excess. How would that promote the change of humanity into something better than human? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/26 "2010-07-06T02:28:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > How would that promote the change of humanity into something better than human? Look, if humanity is “deeply flawed” as you say, the flaws in question are **moral** ones, aren’t they? What can any change in our nature, whether by natural selection or genetic engineering or by interbreeding with non-human sentients, do to improve our ethics? There’s no gene for ethics, is there? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/27 "2010-07-06T02:48:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Fourthed. It’s not my business who fools around with who. > > As for humanity, I regard it as deeply flawed and as something that should be replaced anyway. First–fifthed. Second, Der Trihs, you need to get over it. White guilt is bad enough. Human guilt vis-a-vis other creatures on planet earth is bad enough. You’ve now gone inter-galactic with your guilt. You need to give it up, man, it’s a fast train to nowhere (but that’s the point, isn’t it?–your self-loathing desires to bring everyone down with you). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/28 "2010-07-06T04:41:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Look, if humanity is “deeply flawed” as you say, the flaws in question are **moral** ones, aren’t they? And physical ones, cultural ones, intellectual ones. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What can any change in our nature, whether by natural selection or genetic engineering or by interbreeding with non-human sentients, do to improve our ethics? Depends on what the hybrids got from them. But my comment was mostly seconding **Grumman** ’s about how the species is expendable, only the individuals matter. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > There’s no gene for ethics, is there? Actually yes, ethical behavior apparently has a strong genetic component; just look at psychopaths for an example of what happens when the basic inborn moral equipment isn’t there. And our intellectual limitations also contribute to poor human ethics; we are self delusional, short sighted, and prone to poor judgment in general. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/29 "2010-07-06T06:05:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Our form of foreplay may be dangerous to you.” “You do not have sufficient bodily openings.” ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/30 "2010-07-06T12:27:22Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > “You do not have sufficient bodily openings.” “… yet.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/31 "2010-07-06T17:26:21Z")
“How long can your species hold your breath?” ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/32 "2010-07-06T18:21:07Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I think **rishathra** (defined as “sexual practice outside one’s own species but within the intelligent hominids”) is okay. > > [Rishathra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishathra) > > Now we just need to wait a few hundred thousand years for mankind to speciate, then we can indulge. I’m OK with rishathra, but I personally draw the line at Ghouls. Unless I’m so congested that I just can’t breathe, in which case I’m probably not going to be in the mood anyway. As long as all partners are consenting sentient adults, then I don’t have a problem with the question stated. Are Kzinretts sentient? Some of the Man-Kzin Wars series Kzinretts are, and “modern” Kzinretts apparently have a “tiny female language” consisting of phrases like “My Hero” (spoken in admiration to a Kzintosh) and “Chrowl” (let’s DO it, Hero!)(and there’s an apostrophe in Chrowl somewhere, but I can’t remember where). Anyway, would a male Kzin even LET a human male mate with a female Kzin, if he knew about it and could do something about it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/33 "2010-07-06T18:38:48Z")
Hell, yeah, I’m for inter-species unions! Human, Vulcan, Ferengi, we’re all **workers,** man! The trans-sentient bourgeoisie just plays up racial divisions to divide and rule! Interstellar proletariat, unite! You have nothing to lose but your restraint-field modules! Wait . . . You meant . . . Oh, **ICK!** ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/34 "2010-07-06T18:57:55Z")
Well, put it this way: every nerd female in America totally wanted to do Legolas, and I totally wanted to do Arawen. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/35 "2010-07-06T19:11:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “How long can your species hold your breath?” “We will provide a partner for you if you will state your sex.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/36 "2010-07-06T20:05:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, put it this way: every nerd female in America totally wanted to do Legolas Actually… no. Of course, that’s partly because Orlando Bloom is young enough to be my son. That sort of age difference triggers a squick in me. I wanted to do Gandalf. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/37 "2010-07-06T20:12:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually… no. Of course, that’s partly because Orlando Bloom is young enough to be my son. That sort of age difference triggers a squick in me. > > I wanted to do Gandalf. Gandalf is gay. Just FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/38 "2010-07-06T20:27:20Z")
The actor who played him is gay. To the best of my recollection, nothing in Tolkien specified Gandalf’s sexual orientation. Lots of gay actors have been lusted after by heterosexual women: Rock Hudson, Richard Chamberlain, John Barrowman… It’s actually a fairly common thing in theater. Now, if I had said I lusted after _Dumbledore_, that’s a different matter, as it’s been determined by author fiat he’s gay. But Dumbledore is human, so has no relevance to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/39 "2010-07-06T21:06:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Gandalf is gay. Just FYI. “The wizard’s staff has a knob on the end, knob on the end, knob on the end . . .” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596/40 "2010-07-06T22:27:06Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Again, in that case it’s the second question. We’re not talking “genetic purity”, we’re talking bestiality. No, because these are intelligent beings, right?\* Ramen\*, to use Orson Scott Card’s term. We’re talking _miscegenation._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-oppose-inter-species-unions/545596.md?page=3)