# Would you rather live in the ascendancy of a civilization or during its decline? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140 "2011-12-23T01:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/21 "2011-12-23T04:45:21Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Seventy years ago [life expectancy](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005148.html) (USA) was 63. Today it’s 78. Now imagine that same rate in reverse. That’s life expectancy at birth. So you’d be better off being born when society is closer to the apex, i.e. during the decline. ---
**Author:** ![Villanova\_Junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/4da419/32.png) [@Villanova\_Junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Villanova_Junction)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/22 "2011-12-23T04:53:23Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > What possible benefits could there be to living in a civilization in decline? For an individual that can avoid social pressures and think independently for their own intellectual enrichment, a period of decline would offer more social achievements for individual examination, use and enjoyment. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/23 "2011-12-23T04:57:16Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That’s life expectancy at birth. So you’d be better off being born when society is closer to the apex, i.e. during the decline. Understand. But it (along with infant mortality) is used to quantify the general quality of life and health care. You don’t see a difference between being born in 2011 and living backwards, if you will, back to 1940 vs being born in 1940 and living to now? ---
**Author:** ![oliversarmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/eb8c5e/32.png) [@oliversarmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oliversarmy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/24 "2011-12-23T05:01:47Z")
The decline. Ascendancy is hard work. Decline has wonderful parties. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/25 "2011-12-23T05:07:15Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If you posit that the decline happens at the same rate as the climb? Yes. It could easily be much faster going down than going up, depending on why the collapse is happening. Really for me the answer is “it depends”. How advanced is the decline compared to the ascent? For many low tech cultures, technology and living conditions didn’t change much for most people over the centuries. How rapid is the descent, and what’s causing it? If, say, the ultimate decline and fall of America is caused by the eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano, I think I’ll take living with lower technology while not starving & choking on ash, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/26 "2011-12-23T05:16:31Z")
As a man of means, the ascendancy. As a peon, the decline. Takes awhile for the rewards of Golden Ages to trickle down, if they ever do. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/27 "2011-12-23T05:25:40Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > _ **“Would you rather live in the ascendancy of a civilization or during its decline?”** _ > –Arnold Poindexter, Lambda Lambda Lambda, Revenge of the Nerds, (1984) I feel as though I am watching the decline of America and it depresses me. I would much rather have lived during its ascendancy. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/28 "2011-12-23T06:02:54Z")
> [@simple\_homer](#): > > I feel as though I am watching the decline of America and it depresses me. > I would much rather have lived during its ascendancy. As a rail track layer? Cotton picker? Child mill worker? Coal miner? Housewife? What turn of the century lifestyle in particular do you think you missed out on? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/29 "2011-12-23T06:20:12Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > The latter days of manned space exploration. This shit is hard, we can’t even do what we USED to be able do. What we are doing is a pale comparision and seems to have no point because at this rate we will barely doing anything at all and finally won’t be doing it at all period. We could easily be doing what we used to do. We just don’t, becuase most of the stuff we did wasn’t useful except to prove we could, and what did serve a purpose is done now, and its lasting existence means we don’t have to do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/30 "2011-12-23T06:58:39Z")
The ascendancy is usually marked by everybody rolling up their sleeves and building barns like the Amish. The decline is marked by drugs, orgies and Kurt Weil-inspired Jazz. Really, it’s not that easy a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/31 "2011-12-23T07:04:58Z")
Peak ascendency or early decline. A selfish choice but hypothetically absent offspring, the most free and powerful time to live. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/32 "2011-12-23T18:43:36Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > As a rail track layer? Cotton picker? Child mill worker? Coal miner? Housewife? What turn of the century lifestyle in particular do you think you missed out on? I never said “turn of the century”, and all of the jobs or lifestyles that you mention are still in existence today. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/33 "2011-12-23T18:57:04Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > The ascendancy is usually marked by everybody rolling up their sleeves and building barns like the Amish. The decline is marked by drugs, orgies and Kurt Weil-inspired Jazz. Really, it’s not that easy a choice. This was my thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/34 "2011-12-23T19:45:40Z")
Peak ascendancy, so my kids can enjoy the early decline before things get too fucked up. Though I would say we are in the very early ascendancy of global civilization. Things will get very nice if we can keep it together and solve that whole one percent problem on a global scale. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/35 "2011-12-23T20:09:49Z")
Decline, definitely. Decadence is where it’s at. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/36 "2011-12-23T20:56:19Z")
Depends. Ascendancy could mean hard work, while decline may mean ill-advised decadency. The latter could certainly be more enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/37 "2011-12-23T21:26:29Z")
Moved Cafe Society --\> IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/38 "2011-12-23T23:10:33Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Moved Cafe Society –\> IMHO. I always select the wrong forum. I thought that since it was a quote from Revenge of the Nerds, the Cafe was appropriate. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/39 "2011-12-23T23:35:30Z")
Would I want to be amongst the first piss-poor Latin tribes warring with the neighbors all day, or in a fully formed Rome getting separated from Byzantium in a haze of orgies and chariot races? Is there even a question here? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140/40 "2011-12-24T00:44:10Z")
Well, of course the ascendancy. Did you prefer the late 90s where there was more work to do than there was people who could do it? Jobs were plentiful and it seemed like you were doing something wrong if you WEREN’T getting rich. Or do you prefer the past few years where everyone is just waiting for their turn to get laid off while the whole fabric of the economy seems to be unravelling? I suppose it doesn’t matter much if you are a multi-millionare. But for most people the decline of a modern civilization would be a painful world of unemployment, rising crime, and reduced services and infrastructure without even the hope of things getting better. Even if you are wealthy, you probably spend most of your life living behind fortified walls > [@Sitnam](#): > > As a rail track layer? Cotton picker? Child mill > worker? Coal miner? Housewife? What turn of the century lifestyle in particular do you think you missed out on? Dot-com millionare. Investment banker. Crooked hedge fund guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-live-in-the-ascendancy-of-a-civilization-or-during-its-decline/607140.md?page=3)