# Would you rather spend an evening with Frank Sinatra or Harlan Ellison? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 25, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898 "2018-09-25T16:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898/81 "2018-09-28T16:41:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Thank you ever so much for your condescending permission, but I have no need to repeat myself. It’s just that you’re _so_ determined to steer this conversation into what you want it to be. The question was about choosing one with whom to spend the evening. Not who was a better person. Not whose dick you dream of sucking. Maybe some of these folks are choosing Ellison specifically because he was notably easy to wind up and they would enjoy winding him up? I get a distinct, and sad, impression of you being frustrated and angry that the thread wasn’t a landslide for Ellison. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898/82 "2018-09-28T16:49:36Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > It’s just that you’re _so_ determined to steer this conversation into what you want it to be. The question was about choosing one with whom to spend the evening. Not who was a better person. Not whose dick you dream of sucking. Maybe some of these folks are choosing Ellison specifically because he was notably easy to wind up and they would enjoy winding him up? I get a distinct, and sad, impression of you being frustrated and angry that the thread wasn’t a landslide for Ellison. Projection noted. The thread is all yours. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898/83 "2018-09-28T17:12:08Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > This is a ridiculously unfounded fear; what could you possibly envision yourself saying to Sinatra that would cause him to invoke mob connections and hurt you? [Sinatra: Unequaled musician as well as an unequlled jerk](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1980&dat=19980518&id=BKUoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QAYGAAAAIBAJ&pg=3031,5761780) > [@](#): > > Jackie Mason [was] savagely beaten by a group of thugs after making fun of Sinatra. [The summer afternoon Frank Sinatra tried to beat me up](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/06/the-hot-afternoon-frank-sinatra-tried-to-beat-me-up) > [@](#): > > Suddenly I was grabbed by the arms by two of the largest men I had ever seen and dragged through the crowd. At the same time I saw two or three men holding a small, slight man who was shouting at me, flailing his arms, trying to rush at me, attempting to slug me. He was swearing loudly at me: “I’m going to kill you, you motherfucking son of a bitch!” It was a very drunk and aggressive Frank Sinatra, who had not liked someone standing close to him and not giving him space and deference. [Frank Sinatra and His Violent Temper](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/artists/frank-sinatra-and-his-violent-temper/) > [@](#): > > Sinatra hated New York Mirror journalist Lee Mortimer. When the pair exchanged words in Ciro’s Nightclub in 1948, Sinatra punched him (it was reported in Modern Television & Radio in December 1948 as a “sock on the jaw”, while Sinatra dismissed it as “a little fracas”). Sinatra ended up in court, agreeing a private settlement to end the assault and battery charges brought against him by Mortimer. > > … > > Sinatra paid a waiter $50 to punch writer Dominick Dunne at a popular Hollywood restaurant. It could have been worse: Sinatra once threw a telephone at a businessman at the Beverly Hills Hotel, fracturing his skull. > > … > > When a woman challenged Sinatra about politics, he arranged for his bodyguard Tony ‘The Clam’ Consiglio to go to her hotel room and throw a plate of barbecued spare ribs in her face. [A History of Frank Sinatra’s Most Gangsta Moments](https://www.complex.com/music/2011/11/a-history-of-frank-sinatras-most-gangsta-moments/1) > [@](#): > > “By some accounts, hard negotiation eventually convinced the bandleader [Tommy Dorsey] to take the offer, but other accounts say that Sinatra’s godfather, Willie Moretti, convinced Dorsey to see the light…Moretti bragged in private that he and a few associates paid an unannounced visit to Dorsey in Los Angeles. Moretti allegedly jammed the barrel of a gun into the trombonist’s mouth and got him to release Sinatra from his obligations in exchange for one dollar.” That’s not including a number of less well attested accusations. There are no equivalent stories about Ellison. Those cites also talk about Sinatra’s violence toward his wives. There are no equivalent stories about Ellison. You all might want to go back and read the Gay Talese article cited by Johnny Ecks in post #4, in which Sinatra hassles none other than Harlan Ellison - someone he did not know and had never met - for no reason except that he didn’t like the clothes he was wearing. Frank Sinatra was a violent asshole. It may indeed be interesting to study such a specimen up close in safety. But any equivalency between him and Ellison on the violent asshole meter is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898/84 "2018-09-28T19:39:59Z")
Is there an option for staying home and having needles shoved into my eyes? I might prefer that. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898/85 "2018-09-28T22:48:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Projection noted. The thread is all yours. Ah, the rubber-glue gambit. I bow to your mastery of this technique. ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898/86 "2018-09-29T11:50:03Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > **Without reading other answers** > I can’t say that I’d feel particularly safe with either of them. But I have friends who would love a chat with Ellison. So I’d pick him and then spend the evening in the kitchen,cooking. The Beast that Shouted Seconds at the Heart of the Kitchen ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898/87 "2018-09-29T15:07:39Z")
Sinatra by far. I just googled Ellison and nothing about him seems interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-spend-an-evening-with-frank-sinatra-or-harlan-ellison/821898.md?page=4)