# Would you rather your child had a brief, difficult, glorious life, or a long, easy, mediocre one: **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 29, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204 "2012-10-29T13:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/21 "2012-10-31T04:10:18Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > **On balance** I accept gift of grace for son and decline it for my daughter, because I am a sexist\* who assumes my hypothetical son and daughter are going to be different in the average case. > > Although I could totally see that being the other way around depending upon the actual son and daughter. > > \*Just getting that out of the way for knee-jerky types, especially since I’m the first to have the balls to do this in a public poll. I bet it would be different if it wasn’t public. Could you please elaborate as to the reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/22 "2012-10-31T04:35:07Z")
Regardless of lifespan and circumstances, I imagine a life without much or any courage, compassion, will etc would be less enjoyable than a life with a modicum of each. I would not hesitate to choose the shorter, more difficult, glorious life for my kid. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/23 "2012-10-31T06:23:43Z")
> [@Imago](#): > > Regardless of lifespan and circumstances, I imagine a life without much or any courage, compassion, will etc would be less enjoyable than a life with a modicum of each. I would not hesitate to choose the shorter, more difficult, glorious life for my kid. Who says there would be no courage, compassion etc. for the boring life? Indeed, for example, what if the hypothetical becomes a great man by being seemingly unemphathic-by being the next Bismarck or Napoleon? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/24 "2012-10-31T07:15:07Z")
The OP basically guarantees if I refuse, my kid will live to 100, and not actively suffer in their life? easy-peasy - Glory can go fuck itself. ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/25 "2012-10-31T08:08:43Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Who says there would be no courage, compassion etc. for the boring life? The OP. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/26 "2012-10-31T08:14:51Z")
Decline, of course. I want my kids to be cowardly slackers, just like their father, goshdarnit! ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/27 "2012-10-31T08:24:23Z")
> [@Imago](#): > > The OP. Ach, missed the edit window. I came back to say I’m not being a smartass there- go back and read the scenario. It’s stated that the whole reason your child’s life will be mediocre and whatnot without divine intervention is their lack of the attributes mentioned in my post. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/28 "2012-10-31T11:56:48Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Keep your hands off my kid and get bent, Athena. If you have all these magical powers, why haven’t you cured cancer or legalized recreational drugs? Being as you’re on the Short List, I will not be unleashing the flaming bees upon you for your impudence, but rather upon an innocent scapegoat. Anyway, unlike that carpenter person some of y’all worship, Athena makes no claim to be omnipotent. And since she’s not interested in being worshipped, one may reasonably infer that she does not wish to directly rule humankind, and thus doesn’t force her judgment upon the nations. I suspect that, while she has no particular problem with the weed, she would rather you use your native cleverness and resources to find a way to partake of it without getting in trouble. > [@DSeid](#): > > How about this you are that kid, now a mediocre somewhat blah late mid-lifer, with nothing in your accomplishment list. You find out your parents had that choice. Are you satisfied that they decided right on your behalf? > > You’re the kid who at age 45 is about to be executed. You accomplished great things. Your parents’ decision to change your fate from one of mediocrity into old age into this one is revealed to you. As the trigger is pulled, the sword swung, are you thinking how happy you are your parents chose this for you? I think the latter kid doesn’t care. She’s got Theseusian levels of compassion, courage, and willpower, after all, and if she’s about to be executed it’s because she was doing something heroic, and most likely succeeded. > [@grama](#): > > But the OP does say “[…]they live till the age of 100 without ever being at all remarkable or, for that matter, **truly happy**.[…]” though. And so it does. That doesn’t imply that the heroic alternative is going to be blissfully happy–just that it has better odds than the mediocre one. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/29 "2012-10-31T12:04:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The OP basically guarantees if I refuse, my kid will live to 100, and not actively suffer in their life? easy-peasy - Glory can go fuck itself. It doesn’t guarantee a lack of suffering. It says that the child’s combination of timidity and great intelligence will prevent her from taking risks and probably compel her to be very mindful of her health. To me (speaking as poster not OP) that sounds closer to hypochondria. Nor would it surprise me if the kid never risked kissing anyone, or telling anyone she loved them, or doing anything with any potential at all for loss. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/30 "2012-10-31T12:08:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Who says there would be no courage, compassion etc. for the boring life? Indeed, for example, what if the hypothetical becomes a great man by being seemingly unemphathic-by being the next Bismarck or Napoleon? Some persons actually read the opening post of a thread before posting. Such persons often find their experience enhanced. Also (and again I speak as poster rather than OP), it occurs to me that persons suspicious of Athena’s motives fail to consider that She could easily have granted the child the heroic grace without asking the parent at all. If She were just trying to fuck with the kid, She’d have done so. I could be wrong, of course. I’m wrong fairly frequently. I thought George Bush would be a fairly competent president in his father’s vein, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/31 "2012-10-31T12:24:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The OP basically guarantees if I refuse, my kid will live to 100, and not actively suffer in their life? easy-peasy - Glory can go fuck itself. Yes. Glory is highly overrated. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/32 "2012-10-31T19:12:32Z")
Accomplishing greatness may come at great price. Not so sure that the heroic alternative has better odds of happiness despite our op’s current position that they do - his op itself stated it clearly: “Just as their life will reach heights of glory few others can aspire to, they will also be plunged into terrible depths no one will envy.” The choice made is not merely a hypothetical one - some believe that many of the great artists had untreated bipolar disease and that many of the great scientists were OCD. Van Gogh does not sound like he was a happy person and among the scientists there were many [Strange Brains](http://www.amazon.com/Strange-Brains-Genius-Eccentric-Scientists/dp/0688168949). Would I wish Van Gogh’s suffering on my child? Even Erdos’s eccentricities? I want my kids to desire to make a difference in this world, to leave it better than they found it, to be willing to sacrifice some to do that … but I see the choice to accept grace as vanity for a parent more than considering what is best for the child. Athena is not fucking with the kid; she is playing with my mind, with _my_ vanity. And my vanity needs not my kid’s glory. The kids human, not a demigod. (And always be suspicious of gifts from Greek gods. They rarely end well.) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/33 "2012-10-31T19:48:32Z")
Decline. I think she can find happiness without it, and I wouldn’t want to make a choice for her to live a short life. We are but sparrows flying through a lit room; I believe that’s all we get. I am not going to deny it to her. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/34 "2012-10-31T20:15:17Z")
If my parents had been given such a choice, I hope they’d have chosen the “grace” option. Death is inevitable, and even a world with godlike entities (like Athena) may well lack an afterlife; in that case consciousness ends when life does. But we can earn a measure of _agency_ after death, by having such an impact upon the world that it conforms to our desires even after we die. That’s a close to immortality as any of us come. That’s glory, as rare and splendid as Death is common and squalid. I want it for myself, and I’d want nothing less for any child of mine. And if that meant I had to endure my own child’s funeral - well, so be it. As to what my child would endure - no father wants to see his son or daughter suffer. But my child most assuredly _will_ suffer, even with all his or her intellect bent against it. Painless lives are rare; painless deaths rarer still. I could never spare my child pain, nor death. But sparing him or her a life without purpose? If I could do that, I’d leap at the chance. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/35 "2012-10-31T20:19:00Z")
You left out my option, which is that thinking about this kind of thing is one of the reasons I don’t have kids. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/36 "2012-10-31T20:19:49Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It doesn’t guarantee a lack of suffering. It says that the child’s combination of timidity and great intelligence will prevent her from taking risks and probably compel her to be very mindful of her health. To me (speaking as poster not OP) that sounds closer to hypochondria. Nor would it surprise me if the kid never risked kissing anyone, or telling anyone she loved them, or doing anything with any potential at all for loss. Like I said, not _actively_ suffering. For the rest, there’s therapy 😉 . ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204/37 "2012-10-31T23:41:20Z")
Male, Male, Decline. Male, Female, Decline. “No pain, no gain” - bullstink. “No pain, no pain” say I. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-rather-your-child-had-a-brief-difficult-glorious-life-or-a-long-easy-mediocre-one/639204.md?page=1)