# Would you run a red light in this situation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774 "2015-09-19T15:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/21 "2015-09-20T22:53:33Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Knowing me. Legal right on red and then a u-turn There is one intersection in Modesto (actually, a few of them) where I’ve really done the equivalent of this, rather regularly. A major road intersects a nearly-major road. The left-turn light only lasts long enough for 3 or 4 cars to get through, although during the day there are typically about 10 cars waiting there. When I want to turn left there (which I did frequently, a few years ago), I went straight through, did a U-turn at the next corner, then returned to the intersection and turned right. The same cars that were waiting to turn left were _usually_ still there. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/22 "2015-09-20T23:00:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If the light’s gone a couple of minutes without changing, to the extent that I’m pretty sure it’s broken, I’ll run the light. Related question: what’s the legality of running an obviously broken light? Legal in California, I’m pretty sure, with due care. But good luck convincing that cop of it. If traffic lights are _non_-functional at an intersection, the law requires that it be treated as an all-way stop. From all the (rather few) times I’ve seen this situation, it appears that this is well-known to Ca drivers, and they are pretty good about following this rule. But what about intersections with a _mal_-functional light? I saw one intersection once (in Sunnyvale), of a major street with a middling-size street, where the lights were stuck on _green in all directions_ :eek: At the time I saw this, no vehicular fusion events had happened yet. Most drivers somehow figured this out and were treating the light as a four-way stop. I think, at some point, some drivers figured this out, and all subsequent drivers, like a proof by mathematical induction, just took their cue from the driver ahead of them. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/23 "2015-09-20T23:06:55Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I wouldn’t have even stopped if there was no other traffic. The purpose of stop lights is to keep cars from hitting each other. In the absence of other traffic, they are meaningless to me. > > Motor on! [insert horned devil face icon] Wrong! The _city’s_ purpose in traffic lights is revenue generation, hence the incentive to install very badly-programmed lights. The _cop’s_ purpose in traffic lights is the predatory thrill of the kill! The _driver’s_ purpose in traffic lights is to avoid donating unnecessarily to municipal coffers (and also avoid the annoying wasted day in court). So it’s a constant and ever-escalating battle of wits between municipal traffic engineers and cops, vs the motorists. Traffic safety, while admittedly a factor, is purely incidental. [/horned devil face icon] ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/24 "2015-09-20T23:14:16Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > In actual fact, the OP’s hypothetical would most likely never happen. The straight road would always get the preferred green, and the road that tee’d would have a flashing red. Then it would be nothing different than a rural stop sign intersection. Never seen or heard of this. If one road has a flashing red, then the other road will have a flashing red or flashing yellow, never a green. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/25 "2015-09-20T23:15:36Z")
I’ve waited at stop lights and then drove through when it was obvious there was no traffic. I had always come to a complete stop. Treating the signal like a stop sign. But not in quite awhile. I’m more patient now and more aware of my insurance premiums. It’s not worth saving sixty seconds to roll through a red light. I wish they would allow people to treat red lights like a stop sign. There are times when it gets frustrating when no cars are present. You’re sitting there stuck in a totally empty intersection. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/26 "2015-09-20T23:18:13Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The OP’s hypothetical should have been created that the car was waiting on the leg of the Tee. In that case it would be a lot more questionable to run the red. Still, it would be hardly more dangerous than making a left (or right) turn from a side street onto a major street, at an intersection where there is no signal. > [@](#): > > In actual fact, the OP’s hypothetical would most likely never happen. The straight road would always get the preferred green, and the road that tee’d would have a flashing red. Then it would be nothing different than a rural stop sign intersection. Well, in fact, this exact scenario happens just a few miles up the road from me. As I said, it is a temporary signal and so I assume that its programming has not been considered as carefully as that for permanent signals. It appears to be programmed on a fixed timer, and seems to assume there is a lot of traffic on the tee’d road, thus it gets a very long cycle. > [@](#): > > I covered that. No one thinks someone else is coming when they get into an accident. I’m aware that the scenario is that no one else is coming. In real life, you can’t know that. And if people turning left or right do it slowly, you don’t drive where I drive, where people vaguely pause when turning right on red and do it right in front of on-coming traffic. The scenario I outlined is not imagining that you are going to just blow through the light at 45 mph. You have already been stopped at the light for at least thirty seconds and it is abundantly clear there is no traffic on the other road. Looking down a road to see if there is any traffic coming is a basic driving skill that must be used in perfectly legal and safe situations multiple times each day, in real life. Any time you make a turn onto a road where you do not have the right of way (i.e. turning left or right from a side street onto a major street), you must make this decision. There is no reason that the presence of the traffic signal would suddenly make you incapable of making this evaluation correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/27 "2015-09-21T00:17:01Z")
This is just an argument about the difference between the letter of the law and the intent. If you are an unlucky person, make sure you have a good lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/28 "2015-09-21T00:29:46Z")
Traffic cameras make this question a moot point anyhow. Big brother is always watching and will mail you a ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/29 "2015-09-21T01:12:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Traffic cameras make this question a moot point anyhow. Big brother is always watching and will mail you a ticket. Hardly! Not even many of the lights here in Mesa have cameras, let alone rural Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/30 "2015-09-21T16:22:08Z")
Not only would I, I have “run” red lights twice within the past month. Both times I sat for at least a couple of minutes and observed very light traffic. I was able to see both directions very well and the damn light just wouldn’t change. I decided to not be a chump and sit and waste my time and gasoline. One of the times there was a car behind me. Being observant, I knew it was not a cop car when it pulled up behind me. Could it have been an unmarked car or a cop off-duty? Sure. There are too damn many traffic lights in the world, and too many people wasting time at them. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/31 "2015-09-21T19:11:31Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Knowing me. Legal right on red and then a u-turn Impossible at the intersection in the OP. It is a 3-way intersection where the road from the left doesn’t cross the one you’re on. There is no road to the right, just a large open field. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/32 "2015-09-21T19:27:43Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Not only would I, I have “run” red lights twice within the past month. Both times I sat for at least a couple of minutes and observed very light traffic. I was able to see both directions very well and the damn light just wouldn’t change. I decided to not be a chump and sit and waste my time and gasoline. One of the times there was a car behind me. Being observant, I knew it was not a cop car when it pulled up behind me. Could it have been an unmarked car or a cop off-duty? Sure. > > There are too damn many traffic lights in the world, and too many people wasting time at them. Now, if I’m convinced that the light is stuck, then I will run it. I’ve done this for metering lights. That’s different from just being impatient. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/33 "2015-09-21T19:31:00Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Now, if I’m convinced that the light is stuck, then I will run it. I’ve done this for metering lights. That’s different from just being impatient. I agree. I voted no, though, because I need to support my good habits so that they’ll support me. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/34 "2015-09-21T19:39:37Z")
I voted no. Not because I think it would be unsafe to run the light as described, but because I’m one of those people who can’t jaywalk on an empty street without getting caught. And it’s harder to cry my way out of a ticket now that I’m in my 40s. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/35 "2015-09-21T19:42:45Z")
I’m actually surprised that more people haven’t chosen to run the red light. I agree with voyager that “No one gets into accidents at intersections because they see the other people coming.” However I also think it’s safe to say that most of those accidents are caused by impulsive, snap judgement behavior. If I came to a stop, late at night and didn’t see any cars around except the one behind me; I go through the light without a second thought. I accept the penalty of a fine is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/36 "2015-09-21T19:42:47Z")
No. I’ve run lights in similar situations, but this one doesn’t fit all my criteria. Waiting a minute or two is not a big deal, but if I’ve waited way longer than reasonable, I’d consider it. It’s been some time since I’ve done something like that, but last such situation I recall was one that was triggered, and it seemed the trigger was broken, as I watched the light cycle a couple times without ever getting a green. I even tried backing over it and still nothing. So I waited until it was clear and went. If a cop pulled me over for it, I’d have an honest answer for it. The thing is, even if it looks clear, there’s the obvious risk that either the car right behind me or one of the approaching ones is a cop, but let’s put that aside. I’ve seen people driving, even late at night, without their lights on, maybe they’re tired or inebriated or distracted, it doesn’t matter, they’re very difficult to see. Hell, just last week, I was on the road at about 5:20, at least an hour and a half before sunrise, and I saw someone without his lights on, whom I could only really even see because of the street lamps and my own headlights. I guess he could see fine, or he’d have put his lights on, but I made a point of passing him and getting him behind me. Also, what is the risk that perhaps someone is walking, maybe even wearing dark colors, and is crossing with the light as they should, but you miss them. Regardless, the risk of either getting caught or hitting someone is low, but waiting another 2 minutes is also a minor inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/37 "2015-09-21T19:51:33Z")
I do this often. But I’m on a motorcycle at those times. Its a well known issue that motorcycles often don’t trip the sensors at red lights, so I would be waiting forever to get a green. 16 states currently have a special provision to allow for this. My state is not on that list, but I do it almost every day. I ride to work early, before rush hour. There is one light near my house that will not trip for my bike. I pull up, wait about 30 seconds, and if no traffic is in sight, I go. I have, in one particularly unsettling event, done so right in front of a police officer. He was sitting in his patrol car in the business parking lot that is right on that corner. Lights on inside car, like he was doing oaperwork or something. I waited about two minutes, and then said to myself “fuck it, I gotta go”. And i did. Either he did not notice what I did, or he didn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/38 "2015-09-21T20:09:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If the light’s gone a couple of minutes without changing, to the extent that I’m pretty sure it’s broken, I’ll run the light. Related question: what’s the legality of running an obviously broken light? Legal in most states as there’s usually a statue similar to: _(c) Inoperable or malfunctioning signal.–If a traffic-control signal is out of operation or is not functioning properly, vehicular traffic facing a: (1) Green or yellow signal may proceed with caution as indicated in subsection (a)(1) and (2). (2) Red or completely unlighted signal shall stop in the same manner as at a stop sign, and the right to proceed shall be subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at a stop sign_ > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’ve seen people driving, even late at night, without their lights on, maybe they’re tired or inebriated or distracted, it doesn’t matter, they’re very difficult to see. \ Also, what is the risk that perhaps someone is walking, maybe even wearing dark colors, and is crossing with the light as they should, but you miss them. If you’re at a complete stop for at least 30 seconds (as given in the OP) you should be able to notice any dark car or pedestrian before you proceed to step on the gas again. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/39 "2015-09-21T20:38:47Z")
I wonder if some of you people have ever driven in the country. Most intersections have a stop sign, and that’s it. You’re on your own with regard to cross traffic, and you know what? Death and mayhem does not occur with every car that passes through the intersection. People manage to check traffic and pull out into a 65 mph road safely every day. Sometimes several times a day! Why, every day I pulled out of my rural driveway that doesn’t even have a stop sign, and never hit a pedestrian, not even once! Plus, there’s farm machinery and Amish folk going slowly in the day, and deer at night, and somehow the roads are not death highways. I mean, would you cross[this intersection](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8614251,-89.3057223,3a,75y,211.61h,94.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snDFVVkCM9k4mbmgJRs8TQg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1)? No traffic light! And nearly a blind corner to the left, with the turn and the hill. And at night? Not a street light to be found for miles in either direction. Best just park the car and walk away. It’s too dangerous! ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774/40 "2015-09-21T20:44:15Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I mean, would you cross[this intersection](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8614251,-89.3057223,3a,75y,211.61h,94.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snDFVVkCM9k4mbmgJRs8TQg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!6m1!1e1)? No traffic light! And nearly a blind corner to the left, with the turn and the hill. And at night? Not a street light to be found for miles in either direction. Best just park the car and walk away. It’s too dangerous! Well, the Buick Regal pulled over on the shoulder behind you obviously made it through the intersection, so it can be survived!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-run-a-red-light-in-this-situation/731774.md?page=3)