# Would you sacrifice the love of your life to spare 10,000 strangers by cancer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504 "2011-10-04T01:26:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/61 "2011-10-04T20:00:24Z")
Eh - the girl I love doesn’t love me, anyway. And she’d despise me if I let 10,000 people die in the hopes the Mephisto wouldn’t drive her even further away. The 10,000 live. My hopes die, but they’re feeble things anyway. A fair trade. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/62 "2011-10-04T20:01:02Z")
As described, keep the beloved. I know him. I don’t know those kids and they’d have died if I hadn’t been presented this choice, so I’m not _causing_ their suffering, just failing to alleviate it. Would I hate myself for it? Quite possibly. But I think it’s human nature to look after one’s own folks in preference to those strangers over there. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/63 "2011-10-04T20:06:19Z")
> [@JohnDiFool](#): > > But what if you take the third option, where relinquishing your companion causes you no suffering in the first place, because their leaving is completely incapable of affecting you negatively? Ew. I’m not a buddhist, and I don’t have any desire to be. > [@JohnDiFool](#): > > And, assuming we are unable to relinquish our attachments, what about the 10,000 who feel exactly as you do-why should you privelege your suffering over theirs to the magnitude of at least 10,000:1? How do you explain your decision to them? Why should they be denied the happiness that you will continue to enjoy? Because I don’t care that much about them, nor do I feel obligated to. If I did, I’d give all my cash to charity and my computer away to some poor kid who can’t afford one. If I won’t even deprive myself of a house, various creature comforts, and my pets for others’ benefit, I’m sure as hell not giving up my husband for them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/64 "2011-10-04T20:06:50Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Why should you let that stop you? If that had been a common excuse thru history, humankind would never have “evolved” out of caves and discovered all sorts of amazing things (both about the universe and themselves) that they did. I am using the word _evolve_ in the narrower, biological sense. Humans are evolved to be omnivorous bipeds who live in groups, not quadrapedal obligate carnivores who live alone. Similarly, we’re evolved to care more about persons we know than persons we don’t. Also, no single individual evolves, anyway; only populations do. I am not contending that persons who make the choice to favor their relationships over the sufferings of thousands are making the moral choice. I’m saying that they are making the choice human evolution has caused to be the most likely choice in a given population. > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I think you sell people a little short-or at least their potential. Again, I’m not saying that _everyone_ will make the choice to preserve the love. I’m saying that the vast majority will, just as the vast majority of healthy adults, if asked to run a marathon, will crap out around mile three. > [@](#): > > But what if you take the third option, where relinquishing your companion causes you no suffering in the first place, because their leaving is completely incapable of affecting you negatively? If you truly believe (or I should say know) that you are lacking absolutely nothing in yourself or outside of yourself, then your loved one cannot take anything away from you when they go (be it your happiness, or your subjective evaluation of their companionship, or security, or somesuch). Then Mephisto can go stew in his own juices, having failed his little test (or you having passed his I should say). Oh, bullshit. I think I would choose to save the 10,000 (or at least I hope I would), but I am not going to be unaffected by my wife or baby sister suddenly hating me. And I don’t want to be a person who would be unaffected by their hatred. I love them; I want them to love me. And I DON’T believe that I am “lacking absolutely nothing in yourself or outside of yourself, then your loved one cannot take anything away from you when they go.” I don’t even want to be the guy who is that self-sufficient, because that guy is an asshole. ETA: If relinquishing my companion causes me no suffering in the first place, then I don’t love her or him in the first place. Buddha is as imaginary as Gandalf. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Eh - the girl I love doesn’t love me, anyway. And she’d despise me if I let 10,000 people die in the hopes the Mephisto wouldn’t drive her even further away. > > The 10,000 live. My hopes die, but they’re feeble things anyway. A fair trade. Of course, Mephisto is going to present you with a different quandary. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/65 "2011-10-04T20:20:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Do you give up your relationship with your beloved, or let the 10,000\*\* die? They are toast. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/66 "2011-10-04T22:32:40Z")
Ain’t no way. I don’t care if it’s a million people - my husband and daughter come first. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/67 "2011-10-04T22:41:50Z")
> [@Vihaga](#): > > Ew. I’m not a buddhist, and I don’t have any desire to be. FWIW, the idea that losing someone you love would not affect you negatively doesn’t really strike me as Buddhist, or in any way realistic. Buddhism isn’t about the absence of pain, just the acceptance of it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/68 "2011-10-04T22:42:11Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Ain’t no way. I don’t care if it’s a million people - my husband and daughter come first. So we’re clear: You’re not being asked to let your husband and daughter die. Mephistopheles is just taking the love felt by (one of) them and turning it to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/69 "2011-10-04T22:48:12Z")
Absolutely not. Everyone will die in random ways. That is not my responsibility. The love of my life IS my responsibility. I’d surrender my life to save hers. 10,000 strangers rather than her life? Absolutely not. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/70 "2011-10-04T22:53:22Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Absolutely not. > > Everyone will die in random ways. That is not my responsibility. The love of my life IS my responsibility. > > I’d surrender my life to save hers. 10,000 strangers rather than her life? > > Absolutely not. Again I am unclear if you read the OP, so I’ll reiterate: You’re not being asked to allow your beloved (who need not be your _romantic_ beloved) to die. You’re being asked to consent to having that person hate you. In other words, it is not her well-being that is at stake (unless you’re saying she cannot be well unless she loves you); you are being asked to sacrifice the _relationship_. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/71 "2011-10-04T23:22:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Again I am unclear if you read the OP, so I’ll reiterate: > > You’re not being asked to allow your beloved (who need not be your _romantic_ beloved) to die. You’re being asked to consent to having that person hate you. I read the OP again. That is not clear when you said, “sacrifice the relationship.” Could be anything; could be they died. And the title definitely implies death. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/72 "2011-10-04T23:35:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I read the OP again. That is not clear when you said, “sacrifice the relationship.” Could be anything; could be they died. And the title definitely implies death. Here is the OP in its entirety, sir or madam, with the relevant passages bolded: > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why yes, it IS a silly hypothetical discussion with optional poll. And, yes, the subject IS a sadistic choice. Seriously, did you just meet me? > > A malevolent and vastly powerful godlike being\* – let’s get down to brass tacks and call him Mephistopheles, okay? – appears to you. After establishing his bona fides in a spectactular and terrifying fashion that leaves no room for doubt[sup]†[/sup], Mephisto tells you that he’s gotten bored while while for the Apocalypse and has decided to spend the afternoon fucking with you[sup]‡[/sup]. > > Mephistopheles grabs you by the scruff of the neck and drags you to a convenient magic mountaintop, from which you can see all sorts of interesting things. In paritcular, he draws your attention to 1000 cancer wards. In each of these wards there are several patients-- ten, on average – who will die within a year of one neoplasm or another. Some of the patients are elderly; some are in the prime of their lives; and some are children. All will die in agony. > > Of course, Mephistopheles says with a laugh, none of these people _have_ to die. The Carpenter could save them without even bothering to wave his hand, but, of course, He won’t, because that’s not how he rolls. But while it won’t be that easy for Mephistopheles, it’s still within his power to restore them all to perfect health; in fact he does so to one of them just to make his point. He’s willing to heal the rest for a price – one only you can pay.\*\* _You have to agree to give up your relationship with the one living person whom you most love._\*\* > > Say the word, and Old Scratch will not only cure the 10,000 dying patients, but also restore their bodies, minds, and hearts to the fullness of health. \*\* But he’ll also arrange things so that your beloved (be it spouse, parent, child, or friend) believes that you have consciously and deliberately betrayed them in such an egregious fashion that they’ll never trust you again; in fact, they’ll probably hate you forever. \*\*If you refuse, Mephistopheles will shrug and bid you adieu – except that he’ll also send you 10,000 death notices as the people you declined to save perish, and he might well drag you to a few of the most pathetic funerals, as he finds things like that entertaining. > > Do you give up your relationship with your beloved, or let the 10,000\*\* die? > > Oh, and don’t wait for the poll. I changed my mind about including one. > > - I don’t want to hear any crap about it being Athena, either. Athena is kind and loving. Well, not loving. And not kind either, when you get down to it. But She’s not EVIL. See also: Thor. > [sup]†[/sup] In fact, let’s say that Phisto just rewrites your neural wiring to MAKE you believe he’s what he says he is, without otherwise changing your personality, morals, and so forth. > [sup]‡[/sup] No real reason; you just piss him off. > \*\* Okay, I guess it’s technically nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/73 "2011-10-05T00:03:09Z")
You are correct, I did mis-read. The reply remains the same. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/74 "2011-10-05T00:33:00Z")
Not a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/75 "2011-10-05T01:16:02Z")
Yep. The love of my life is about to be deported anyway. It won’t hurt any more if he thinks I don’t love him. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/76 "2011-10-05T01:33:17Z")
If the person itself is not being sacrificed, only my relationship with them I cant see the debate as its ultimately my happiness vs 10000 lives, and my partner would have the opportunity to find other relationships - I am not that special that I think I am irreplaceable. This scenario also seems to make it so an afterlife really exists, making this life less meaningful than it otherwise was. This also would suggest sacrificing myself in this life is the sensible thing to do in the long run for myself as well and that I will see my partner in the other reality in the long run anyhow. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/77 "2011-10-05T02:14:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No way. > > Aren’t you the one who starts a Pit thread cheering every time some murderer is executed, and defends it, saying you’re happy because it’s “justice”? :dubious: That is because those people have lost their right to live, these people clearly have not. Killing al-Alwaki for example would be its own reward. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m wondering how old you are. I would be giving up a lot to give up the love of my life at my age after all the time we’ve been together. I wouldn’t think I’d have love like that in life again. I’d like to say I’d take the hit, but this one gnaws at me. I’d have an easier time giving up my own life. If there was a way to have the sadistic son of a bitch just take **Skald** , I’d go for that in an instance. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Says the child who has never been in love. In what sense? Romantic love? > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Absolutely not. > > Everyone will die in random ways. That is not my responsibility. The love of my life IS my responsibility. > > I’d surrender my life to save hers. 10,000 strangers rather than her life? > > Absolutely not. So you wouldn’t give a damn for World War 3 or a dinokiller asteroid striking Earth provided the life of them were guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/78 "2011-10-05T03:20:01Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Add to this the fact that these 10,000 people are already, by natural causes, dying of cancer, and that makes this a no-brainer for me. > > It’s not like the devil is going to kill them; it’s nature and reality taking its course. 10,000 strangers already on course to die ^That. I am not causing anything to happen that was not already going to happen, and I am already buggered anyway by having caught Meph’s attention, why should I play his game, which by his very nature will be stacked so I can’t win? > [@Otara](#): > > This scenario also seems to make it so an afterlife really exists, making this life less meaningful than it otherwise was. This also would suggest sacrificing myself in this life is the sensible thing to do in the long run for myself as well and that I will see my partner in the other reality in the long run anyhow. Well, that much is true. BUT the reference to how “the Carpenter could heal them” suggest this hypothetical’s world runs on Christian theo/cosmology, wherein the only response to an offer from such a source is “Get Thee Behind Me”. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/79 "2011-10-05T03:28:29Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > How selfish people are. If this was killing your loved one there might be some reason in this but it is simply they losing your trust in you. It’s not that simple. For my husband to end up hating me would mean I have betrayed him and caused him pain. It goes against my commitment to him to cause him the kind of pain that comes from the betrayal of a loved one. Also, my daughter deserves to grow up with the benefit of having her parents in a loving, committed relationship. Why should she suffer? Those 10,000 people already afflicted? Don’t know 'em, didn’t cause their suffering. It’s a pity and I can sympathize, but there’s nothing I can do for them. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504/80 "2011-10-05T03:31:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In what sense? Romantic love? Adult love. The kind of love that comes with the responsibility for the health, happiness, and well-being of another human being. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-sacrifice-the-love-of-your-life-to-spare-10-000-strangers-by-cancer/598504.md?page=5)