# Would you say that STAR WARS droids are persons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641 "2012-07-18T17:40:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/41 "2012-07-19T06:28:03Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Eh, you tinker with a car or two and suddenly you find yourself on the brink of a philosophical paradox rivaling the greatest cognitive science and artificial intelligence strides made by the entire human race up until that point. Happened **all the time** to the auto shop kids at my high school. “My project’s ready for grading, Mr. Big Nose. Hey, I’m TALKING to you, squid brain!” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/42 "2012-07-19T11:14:31Z")
If people are sentient/sapient, then so are droids. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/43 "2012-07-19T11:25:16Z")
I’m old school. If they pass the Turing Test we are morally obligated to treat them as persons. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/44 "2012-07-19T11:26:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Doesn’t make it not bigotry. Those particular droids didn’t do anything. > > Yeah, I think they are sentient. It’s rare for robots in fiction not to be. Never said it made it not bigotry, but also consider that it is a busy bar that makes money from selling drinks. Droids are basically useless non-customers taking up space. I think droids in SW have the potential for sentience at activation, but it is hard to draw the line. I think that a lot of what people see as personality are really programmed quirks OR visual shorthand. 3PO for instance comes across as overly polite and fussy, since his programmed job is translations for droids and organics this makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/45 "2012-07-19T13:37:45Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > “My project’s ready for grading, Mr. Big Nose. Hey, I’m TALKING to you, squid brain!” Bonus points for the _Far Side_ reference. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > I’m old school. If they pass the Turing Test we are morally obligated to treat them as persons. [http://chrismaddencartoons.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/turing-test-robot-baby-cartoon-chris-madden.gif?w=630](http://chrismaddencartoons.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/turing-test-robot-baby-cartoon-chris-madden.gif?w=630) > [@grude](#): > > Never said it made it not bigotry, but also consider that it is a busy bar that makes money from selling drinks. Droids are basically useless non-customers taking up space… But the bartender said “We don’t serve their kind in here,” didn’t he? That implied that there _were_ places where they might be served (perhaps a refreshing glass of motor oil). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/46 "2012-07-19T14:32:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If people are sentient/sapient, then so are droids. Doesn’t follow. I think it’s inarguable that Artoo, Threepio, and the Clone Wars battle droids are sentient, but that doesn’t mean that all droids are. You’d have to show that they display the cognitive traits that distinguish sentient beings from computers. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/47 "2012-07-19T14:35:38Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Never said it made it not bigotry, but also consider that it is a busy bar that makes money from selling drinks. Droids are basically useless non-customers taking up space. > > I think droids in SW have the potential for sentience at activation, but it is hard to draw the line. I think that a lot of what people see as personality are really programmed quirks OR visual shorthand. 3PO for instance comes across as overly polite and fussy, since his programmed job is translations for droids and organics this makes sense. Except that he also shows traits no one would program for, such as the (very occasional) selfless concern for Artoo. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/48 "2012-07-19T14:50:41Z")
General Grievous was certainly sentient. And malicious. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/49 "2012-07-19T14:52:59Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > General Grievous was certainly sentient. And malicious. Grievous wasn’t a droid; he was a cyborg. Started off a man, or at least some sort of organic male. Better for taunting purposes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/50 "2012-07-19T16:32:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Doesn’t follow. I think it’s inarguable that Artoo, Threepio, and the Clone Wars battle droids are sentient, but that doesn’t mean that all droids are. No, true, amend that to “the a lot of the droids we’ve seen are” - from IG-88 to Foot-torture Bot are clearly sentient. Just one example - the protocol droid on the Trade Fed ship in Ep. 1 clearly is in fear of being shot when it comes out of the gased chamber the Jedi are in. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/51 "2012-07-19T17:28:44Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > “My project’s ready for grading, Mr. Big Nose. Hey, I’m TALKING to you, squid brain!” Hah! That’s still on the wall above my workbench! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/52 "2012-07-19T18:25:32Z")
I picked “A sizeable minority of droids are sentient.” because I thought I saw droids that appeared to be mere robots. The battle droids in one movie don’t seem to react when C3PO’s head got transplanted onto another body. They don’t seem to think that that is unusal enough, or whatever, implying no imagination. (They were new builds, so possibly they haven’t been active long enough for their sentience to manifest.) ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/53 "2012-07-19T18:31:46Z")
R2 and 3PO pass my own Turing test, so I picked them and most droids are sentient in the poll. Take that with as big a grain of salt as you like. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/54 "2012-07-19T18:44:23Z")
Real question-\> What happens when someone’s droids commit a crime in the governed part of the SW universe? Who is charged and put on trial? In one episode of The Clone Wars a personal droid is “tricked” into acting as a suicide bomber, at the end when he seems to realize what is going on he pleads for his life(but was happily plotting the deed) which almost makes me wonder if this isn’t some kind of self preservation programming to avoid damaged units. At one point too 3PO says “don’t hurt me I am just a droid” which sounds like I just work here you know, almost like what would be the point of hurting me? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/55 "2012-07-19T18:48:55Z")
At one point in Episode IV, C3PO lies to the stormtroopers about the good guys “just left”, and taking his partner down to maintenance. Is the ability to improvise a lie, and to realise that a lie is desirable for his situation, a sign of sentience? ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/56 "2012-07-19T18:54:12Z")
R2 and 3PO are definitely sentient and I would say many of the other droids are as well like 4-LOM, IG88, and the protocol droid in Phantom Menace (as were mentioned earlier). I have a difficult time thinking the droid army are sentient. Same goes for the mouse droids, Luke’s sparring drone, Probots, and all those other lower-tier mechanicals. I would argue with those types, you don’t want sentience developing, you just want them to trundle off and do the tasks that their programming or programmer bids them to do. Additionally, it’s been established that frequent memory wipes prevent this from occuring, so I would imagine that a lot of droid owners want to do that to keep the creepy automation from acting a little _too_ alive. Uncanny valley and all that. Then again, I could be wrong, I’m just an ugly bag of mostly water. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/57 "2012-07-19T19:06:41Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > I have a difficult time thinking the droid army are sentient. Same goes for the mouse droids, Luke’s sparring drone, Probots, and all those other lower-tier mechanicals. I would argue with those types, you don’t want sentience developing, you just want them to trundle off and do the tasks that their programming or programmer bids them to do. For those who don’t know, here is one example of a mouse droid: [link](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:MSE-6_Mouse_Droid.jpg) In Episode IV, Chewy roars at a mouse droid, and it seems to flee in fear. While I agree with the overall point (that some droids are mere robot labor saving devices), we don’t see enough of the daily activities of these “extras” to know whether or not they (as individuals) are sentient. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/58 "2012-07-19T19:13:48Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Then again, I could be wrong, I’m just an ugly bag of mostly water. \Wrong franchise!\ ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/59 "2012-07-19T19:21:11Z")
Ultra geek mode! I think the allusion to racism in “we don’t serve their kind here!” in ANH was 100% intentional and not intended to be some grand hint to filled in by the prequels. The droids were from the very beginning intentionally chosen as common everyman viewpoint characters for the saga, Lucas said they were inspired by the servants in Hidden Fortress. The droids were definitely supposed to be sentient and downtrodden and ignored by the other characters, much like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. Everything else comes later. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641/60 "2012-07-19T20:48:16Z")
jayjay (ubergeek) and grude (ultrageek) need to fight it out. IN THE THUNDERDOME! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-say-that-star-wars-droids-are-persons/628641.md?page=4)