# Would you socialize with an anti-vaxxer that you kind of have to socialize with? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 25, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923 "2015-03-25T03:54:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/41 "2015-03-25T15:59:52Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Vaccinated kids aren’t any less likely to catch a sinus/bronchial infection? Sure, and of course, there’s no bronchitis vaccine. My point is, the kid is already sick with something and doesn’t have much protection, partly because he’s so young and partly because his immune system is already working hard. Since I’m often sick, I should avoid him and his family so they don’t catch anything from me which might work its way back to the child. I’m a well known crank, of course, so maybe I’m being overcautious. I would just worry about hanging out with people who take a laissez-faire approach to infectious disease. ---
**Author:** ![CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptainAmerica_1987)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/42 "2015-03-25T16:32:40Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > because you’ll rightly get ripped to shreds. Oh OK tough guy whatever you say. How about you do what you want with your life and family and we’ll do what we want with ours. You just stop shoving your beliefs/agenda down our throats! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/43 "2015-03-25T16:37:50Z")
Easy there, Wang Chung. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/44 "2015-03-25T16:38:34Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The “intolerance of other beliefs” thing is a red herring here. If I had a friend with Ebola who rubbed his bloody snotrags on every doorknob in his house because he firmly believes it scares away the evil spirits, his “belief” isn’t what would lead me to politely refuse a dinner invitation. You are absolutely right. There is no difference whatever between not vaccinating your kids, and rubbing Ebola on door knobs. None whatsoever. I congratulate you on your insight. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/45 "2015-03-25T16:41:05Z")
> [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Oh OK tough guy whatever you say. How about you do what you want with your life and family and we’ll do what we want with ours. You just stop shoving your beliefs/agenda down our throats! Throat sore, huh? Fever? ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/46 "2015-03-25T16:48:08Z")
Not vaccinating your kids is not a political issue. Not vaccinating your kids is a public health issue. I would not attend any gatherings with them socially. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/47 "2015-03-25T17:03:00Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Not vaccinating your kids is not a political issue. Not vaccinating your kids is a public health issue… Underline mine. Yep, it affects, or can affect everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/48 "2015-03-25T17:03:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Throat sore, huh? Fever? Maybe if he hangs out here long enough he can acquire the necessary antibodies to acquire natural immunity to stupidity. He’ll come out stronger, and all the better for it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/49 "2015-03-25T17:04:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > eh, just go to the dinner, exchange platitudes with the boss guy, and come home early. these sort of events aren’t purely social, but are job-related; worth going to, without a fuss. That’s what we’ll probably do. I do get that sometimes you have to put up with people you would much, much rather not when it’s job-related. Almost all the time, in fact. Is every company required to have at least one jackhole working there? > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > \ > The thing is, if you take any group of 100 people, and weed out the anti-vaxxers, the Republicans, the libertarians, the religious folks, the pro-lifers, the pro-gun folks, the pro drug war folks, the folks who use politically incorrect language, and other groups you have beefs with, sooner or later, there’s going to be no one left in that group of 100. > \ Yeah, good point, good point. > [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Oh OK tough guy whatever you say. How about you do what you want with your life and family and we’ll do what we want with ours. You just stop shoving your beliefs/agenda down our throats! And the second anti-vaxxers stop destroying herd immunity and infecting other people, I will go back to my usual “live and let live” attitude. I hadn’t realized that I was coming across as “holier-than-thou” - that is not my attitude. I don’t think I’m better than anti-vaxxers; I’m an online and real life vaccine crusader, and this is a cause that I am passionate about. My husband’s boss is the enemy, not someone I look down on. I also think that there is a social contract, the anti-vaxxers are breaking it, and should have social consequences as a result. You shouldn’t be able to let your kids free ride on everyone else’s doing the right thing with no consequences, and one of the consequences might be that your family are not welcome everywhere and not everyone will want to socialize with you if you refuse to do the right thing and vaccinate. ---
**Author:** ![CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptainAmerica_1987)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/50 "2015-03-25T17:37:48Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Maybe if he hangs out here long enough he can acquire the necessary antibodies to acquire natural immunity to stupidity. He’ll come out stronger, and all the better for it. Yeah who needs that immune system right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/51 "2015-03-25T17:38:22Z")
Everyone believes some things that other people think (or know) is stupid. That includes you OP, I probably wouldn’t like you for some of your beliefs. That doesn’t mean I can’t socialize with you for a few hours. There are plenty of commonalities among people no matter what their beliefs. Work, family, hobbies, entertainment. The world is made of many different types of people and we are all supposed to be adults and get along. ---
**Author:** ![CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptainAmerica_1987)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/52 "2015-03-25T17:41:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s what we’ll probably do. I do get that sometimes you have to put up with people you would much, much rather not when it’s job-related. Almost all the time, in fact. Is every company required to have at least one jackhole working there? > > Yeah, good point, good point. > > And the second anti-vaxxers stop destroying herd immunity and infecting other people, I will go back to my usual “live and let live” attitude. > > I hadn’t realized that I was coming across as “holier-than-thou” - that is not my attitude. I don’t think I’m better than anti-vaxxers; I’m an online and real life vaccine crusader, and this is a cause that I am passionate about. My husband’s boss is the enemy, not someone I look down on. > > I also think that there is a social contract, the anti-vaxxers are breaking it, and should have social consequences as a result. You shouldn’t be able to let your kids free ride on everyone else’s doing the right thing with no consequences, and one of the consequences might be that your family are not welcome everywhere and not everyone will want to socialize with you if you refuse to do the right thing and vaccinate. Well I’m not here to start an argument on-line because arguments over the internet are pointless and lead no where. In regards to your husbands boss and any social events that include him if you really don’t want to be near him how about just make up some excuse and don’t go. Use the typical I’m sick or something came up excuse. Problem solved ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/53 "2015-03-25T17:59:41Z")
Sadly, my older son and his best friends (best friends since 1985) have recently had a split over this. The friend is 100% against vaxs, my son is 100% for. They are both recent first-time dads and both our families were thrilled at a 2nd generation possibly growing up as besties, too. Now it appears that isn’t going to happen. As to hubby’s boss, it’s never good form to accept someone’s hospitality and be rude to them regarding their personal beliefs, whether you agree or not. If you don’t think you can smile through the evening, make an excuse and don’t go. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/54 "2015-03-25T18:48:06Z")
For me, I guess it would be like having to socialize with a rabid bigot, or someone who avidly supports terrorism to advance religious beliefs; if they don’t bring it up, I’d be willing to show up and nod politely, but I’d keep it to a minimum. We’re talking about people who do real harm to society, not people with just different opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/55 "2015-03-25T19:06:45Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > My husband’s boss/owner of the company is an anti-vaxxer. He also has four children, one of them being about four months old\*. There are going to come times when he will expect both my husband and me to socialize with him (like a Christmas party, for example\*\*). I don’t want to socialize with him even for a second - I find anti-vaxxers so socially irresponsible and selfish that I don’t want to have anything to do with them. > > I also realize that you can’t pick your bosses or your spouse’s bosses, and there are social expectations that come along with working for a living. Would you just hold your nose and be sociable for the bare minimum required, or would you take a stand on something that you feel strongly about? > > \*The newborn is apparently very sick right now. We live in an area that has horrifically high non-vaccination rates - I hope very much that the baby doesn’t have measles or whooping cough. > > \*\*We are expected to go to the late and much-put-off Christmas dinner this weekend. Just to add a little more detail to the OP, the company I’m currently working for has a whopping six staff, including the boss. So my absence would probably be noticed. I found out about the boss’ anti-vax stance last fall when I, as the company safety guy, delivered a weekly staff safety meeting on how to reduce the odds of getting the flu during the upcoming flu season. Safe practice #1: Get your flu shot. The boss immediately chirped up that he didn’t believe in vaccines and then related his recollection of a previous job where they brought the local Health Services to their office to offer all staff the flu shot. According to my boss, every single person who got the jab became desperately ill almost immediately while every single person who declined remained healthy all winter. Rather than immediately telling my boss in front of the rest of the staff that he’s full of shit and that anecdote does not equal data, I decided to just move the conversation on to hand washing. About a week later I got my flu shot and a couple weeks after that I came down with… a cold. The boss immediately concluded that the flu shot had caused me to become sick. And the subject came up one more time around Christmas, a few weeks after **Cat Whisperer** and I got our DTaP boosters, when another staff member brought up the local pertussis outbreak that was happening. I noted that the DTaP shot had caused no adverse effects, but the boss seemed unmoved by the anecdotal evidence presented at that time. So anyway, the boss let me know earlier this week that our much-delayed year-end party was to finally take place this coming weekend, but that it might be pushed back yet again if their very sick baby wasn’t any better by Friday. I studiously DID NOT ask what the baby was suffering from because I knew that the look on my face alone if it was something that is vaccine preventable would probably get me in trouble. Better to just act like I didn’t even hear the part about the kid being sick than wind up with a can open and worms everywhere. Which leads us to the OP. By the way, thanks for all the input! 🙂 > [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Yeah who needs that immune system right. :rolleyes: Personally, I do need my immune system right, which is why I’m in favour of getting vaccinated and power through it even though I have a serious aversion to needles in general. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/56 "2015-03-25T20:31:19Z")
> [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Well I’m not here to start an argument on-line because arguments over the internet are pointless and lead no where. You do know that the SDMB is, specifically, a _debate_ board, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/57 "2015-03-26T00:12:46Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Everyone believes some things that other people think (or know) is stupid. That includes you OP, I probably wouldn’t like you for some of your beliefs. > > That doesn’t mean I can’t socialize with you for a few hours. There are plenty of commonalities among people no matter what their beliefs. Work, family, hobbies, entertainment. The world is made of many different types of people and we are all supposed to be adults and get along. Vaccinating your kids to contribute to the herd immunity that protects all of us isn’t just a personal preference, though. > [@madmonk28](#): > > For me, I guess it would be like having to socialize with a rabid bigot, or someone who avidly supports terrorism to advance religious beliefs; if they don’t bring it up, I’d be willing to show up and nod politely, but I’d keep it to a minimum. We’re talking about people who do real harm to society, not people with just different opinions. Maybe that’s the disconnect here; I truly believe that antivaxxers ARE doing real harm to society. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/58 "2015-03-26T03:01:57Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Hey listen, I frequently socialize with people who I couldn’t agree with one bit about politics. > > I find that when my conversational counterpart wants to discuss something I know we will never agree on, you simply steer the conversation as quickly in another direction as possible. > > You’re not required to agree with everything someone believes in, in order to be sociable and civil. > > This happens to me frequently. I’m an atheist and I feel that superstition and organized political entities centered around the un-debate-able imaginings of people are both really bad for society. Yet most of the people around me feel faith is important. > > I can either have zero friends, and annoy everyone at all times, and make them dislike atheists that much more than they already do, or I can find common ground, other things to talk about. You’d be surprised, most people don’t care if you’re an atheist as long as you don’t make it an argument that must be had every five minutes. And religious people are just the same as me, provided we’re not having a debate over the supernatural. Take away that one area of disagreement that can’t be bridged, and all of a sudden, we’re both people that can be talked to and socialized with. > > I have to work with some folks who are much older than I am, who frequently use outdated racial references. I find it appalling. I don’t condone it. And whenever it comes up, I steer the conversation elsewhere, and I mention that I don’t like those words. They’re not going to change; they’re old and set in their ways. And I have to work with them. I can’t fire them, I don’t have that kind of authority. > > And yeah, it’s really offensive to me. And I think it should be a big deal, and I wish I could pick that fight. It’s very important to me. > > I think anti-vaxxers are just as socially irresponsible. > > The thing is, if you take any group of 100 people, and weed out the anti-vaxxers, the Republicans, the libertarians, the religious folks, the pro-lifers, the pro-gun folks, the pro drug war folks, the folks who use politically incorrect language, and other groups you have beefs with, sooner or later, there’s going to be no one left in that group of 100. > > No one. > > Being holier than everyone else ignores ones’ own faults, and leaves out a large portion of humanity. > > I’ll fight a good fight and debate anyone anywhere anytime. But there are such things as off hours, and work hours, and I don’t feel the need to be constantly at war with everything I find reprehensible about humanity. > > Because I realize there’s nothing I can do, as one person, to change humanity, by arguing it down. I can’t argue everyone to my side. > > All I can do is be a pro-vaxxer, pro choice, areligious liberal, and also be a decent human being, and hope that this is its own form of persuasion. Wise words. This is what meaningless small talk is for - it’s a social lubricant. For men, sports is a great neutral subject, and an instant conversation starter. Many men have strong and even passionate opinions, but not ones that generate acrimony if challenged. I’m not a huge sports fan, but I try to keep up with the what’s going on sports. I’ve found that I can talk to just about any man, no matter how far apart our interests, experiences, or ideas are, if I start the conversation with “Hey, how about that Joe Slobovnik trade?” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/59 "2015-03-26T03:14:21Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Vaccinating your kids to contribute to the herd immunity that protects all of us isn’t just a personal preference, though. > > Maybe that’s the disconnect here; I truly believe that antivaxxers ARE doing real harm to society. I think he’s agreeing that antivaxxer are one of the groups that do real harm to society and it’s simply not just a parenting opinion. Which is, of course, accurate. That being said I’d go, make polite small talk and leave if the conversation turned to vaccines rather than debating the issue. It’s a work event and the rules are different. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923/60 "2015-03-26T09:20:50Z")
Well going back to my original point where I tell non-vaxxers to just keep quiet and dont tell anyone, how would you really know if someone is not vaccinated unless you specifically ask? AND hope they are honest about it. Also maybe they THINK they are vaccinated but forgot to get a booster shot or something? I really dont think its that much of an issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-socialize-with-an-anti-vaxxer-that-you-kind-of-have-to-socialize-with/715923.md?page=4)