# Would you submit DNA in a voluntary genetic dragnet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362 "2009-08-04T23:55:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/61 "2009-08-05T15:24:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How are the cops supposed to be able to determine who is an “unrelated party” and who is not? By looking at people close to the victim, people nearby at the time of the crime, people matching witness’ descriptions. You know, police work. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/62 "2009-08-05T15:30:48Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Let’s say there’s 100 people in the neighbourhood. 93 of them submit to testing and rule themselves out. Is it then ok and allowed to focus all resources on the other 7? No, because how do we know it’s someone from the neighborhood? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/63 "2009-08-05T15:33:07Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > How did they do it before DNA testing? With a lot less success. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/64 "2009-08-05T15:34:19Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > By looking at people close to the victim, people nearby at the time of the crime, people matching witness’ descriptions. You know, police work. You mean police can tell if somebody’s innocent just by looking at them? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/65 "2009-08-05T15:40:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Doesn’t the government fingerprint everyone who goes into the U.S. military? I got fingerprinted when I went in. They also fingerprint everybody who applies for a national security clearance. I got fingerprinted when I went to work at a National Laboratory some twenty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/66 "2009-08-05T15:45:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Doesn’t the government fingerprint everyone who goes into the U.S. military? I got fingerprinted when I went in. Heh…the military has not only my fingerprints, but also my footprints and dental records. The footprint was because I was on flight status. Apparently, if a fighter crashes, sometimes the only piece big enough to attempt identification is a foot protected by flight boots. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/67 "2009-08-05T15:50:57Z")
Also, many states (at least ca. 1989 they did), fingerprint applicants for teaching licenses. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/68 "2009-08-05T15:51:11Z")
I guess they’ve got my dental records too. I hadn’t thought about that. I wonder if they saved my piss. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/69 "2009-08-05T15:53:33Z")
If the victim’s family asked me, I probably would out of guilt. If the police asked, I would ask for a warrant - though I like the idea of first asking all cops to submit! As for fingerprints - I am in the following databases: California thumb print for DL SEC for a broker’s license USMC from service years California police for a background check for a youth activity California police for working for the University of California ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/70 "2009-08-05T16:40:35Z")
Also, the state bar association has my fingerprints, collected as part of the admission process. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/71 "2009-08-05T17:38:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Heh…the military has not only my fingerprints, but also my footprints and dental records. The footprint was because I was on flight status. Apparently, if a fighter crashes, sometimes the only piece big enough to attempt identification is a foot protected by flight boots. The military also has my DNA. They started collecting this right before I got out to ensure that bodies recovered in future wars could be identified conclusively. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/72 "2009-08-05T17:41:32Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > If the victim’s family asked me, I probably would out of guilt. I wouldn’t; I’d be incredibly offended that they thought I needed to prove my innocence. How else could it come across other than “We think you could be a dangerous criminal, how 'bout proving you’re not?” ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/73 "2009-08-05T17:41:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You mean police can tell if somebody’s innocent just by looking at them? What? I think you’re missing my point. During a DNA dragnet, the large majority of the people asked for a sample wouldn’t be asked if it wasn’t for the dragnet operation. They simply happen to to live in a certain neighborhood, or match a basic profile, there’s no real reason to suspect them of the crime. Yet, by the vary nature of such an operation, those who refuse would appear suspicious. Really, as long as the tests are voluntary, wouldn’t police be more interested in those who won’t take it, than those that do? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/74 "2009-08-05T18:14:57Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I wouldn’t; I’d be incredibly offended that they thought I needed to prove my innocence. How else could it come across other than “We think you could be a dangerous criminal, how 'bout proving you’re not?” Ah - I was thinking of some public plea at a community meeting, not that they would be going door-to-door. Actually, I didn’t really think about the scenario, but just was trying to guess what would get me to go over the line and voluntarily submit instead of asking for a warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/75 "2009-08-05T18:54:28Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > If you’re a cop or work for a prosecuting office, then yes. Interestingly, I have a professor who is a former prosecuting attorney and is married to a cop, and she doesn’t believe the cops are our buddies and we just cooperate with them and everything will be okay, either. It’s a pretty naive view to take. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/76 "2009-08-05T19:14:15Z")
No. It really doesn’t gain them anything, all it does is rule people (who were already going to be ruled out anyway) out. If they had enough to actually suspect me, they’d be able to get a warrant. Otherwise, they need to do actual police legwork to get the info they need. It also, as was said above, opens me up to more scrutiny for this and future crimes, something which provides no benefit to me. So, no benefit to society, no benefit to me, no legal imperative, so no is my answer. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/77 "2009-08-05T19:30:18Z")
You know that Windows Genuine Advantage tool that windows update tries to install on your computer. You know, the thing that provides absolutely zero benefit to you, but has a small chance of malfunctioning and taking away your ability to use your own computer? I don’t let it install itself. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/78 "2009-08-05T21:44:13Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Really, as long as the tests are voluntary, wouldn’t police be more interested in those who won’t take it, than those that do? Quite frankly, that’s all the more reason for me to refuse. I’m not sure how I’d handle a situation in which I was asked for my DNA. But if we let people (police type and otherwise) get the impression that only those with something to hide will refuse, it sets up a situation I’m not comfortable with. Give me a reason other than it is somehow easier to figure out who is guilty by using a DNA dragnet rather than other sorts of police work, and maybe I’ll submit. But if the real motivation is to narrow down the pool of suspects based on who will submit to DNA testing? I’m refusing to submit. My DNA is none of your business. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/79 "2009-08-05T21:53:30Z")
> [@Eureka](#): > > Quite frankly, that’s all the more reason for me to refuse. I’m not sure how I’d handle a situation in which I was asked for my DNA. But if we let people (police type and otherwise) get the impression that only those with something to hide will refuse, it sets up a situation I’m not comfortable with. > > Give me a reason other than it is somehow easier to figure out who is guilty by using a DNA dragnet rather than other sorts of police work, and maybe I’ll submit. > > But if the real motivation is to narrow down the pool of suspects based on who will submit to DNA testing? I’m refusing to submit. My DNA is none of your business. That’s my point exactly. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362/80 "2009-08-06T22:43:51Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > But aren’t you already running a risk of being wrongfully convicted once the police show up on your doorstep? I mean, at that point, you already are under investigation, and conceivably things _could_ go wrong in such a way as to incriminate you. Submitting to DNA testing then only lowers the chances of a false positive, by a considerable margin, and thus would be to your benefit. How could it possibly be to your benefit? If they have enough evidence to arrest you or get a warrant for it, they wouldn’t have to ask. So they don’t have that evidence. There are only two possible outcomes of offering the sample: either the DNA would not match, in which case they don’t have enough evidence to arrest/convict you, or it would, and you would just have given them the evidence they needed. The first case is equivalent to you not giving them DNA, so how could this possibly help you? Why might there be a match? Maybe their testing procedures aren’t perfect. Maybe the software they use to compare DNA has a bug in it. Maybe you’ve got a long-lost identical twin. It doesn’t matter. It might happen, and it can only turn out worse for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-submit-dna-in-a-voluntary-genetic-dragnet/505362.md?page=5)