# Would you support an IQ test for (US) Presidency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408 "2010-02-10T08:49:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/21 "2010-02-10T15:43:34Z")
Instead of an IQ test, they need to all be survivors of front line fighting, actually in command of some sub set of troops. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/22 "2010-02-10T15:53:54Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > As to the OP, I kinda like the idea. > > What I’m more interested in, and this should probably be a separate topic, is the idea expressed in many posts here that IQ is not a very good indicator of intelligence. It actually is, and it is a pretty good indicator of function in a lot of domains. It’s also one of the most stable quantities we have measured in people over time. Yeah, but it’s not a “stability test” or a “function quotient”. It is purported to measure intelligence. I don’t know if there is an accepted definition of intelligence in the psychological community, but among people I know, being able to solve riddles, continue patterns and complete analogies in a multiple choice format is not even close to the definition of intelligent. Maybe it is one aspect of some multidimensional spectrum of intelligence, but certainly not the defining aspect. And to be clear, I’m against the idea of IQ tests being required for anybody anywhere. Keep them in psychological journals and online quizzes where they belong, please. Personally, I’m against any standards at all for political office. If the electorate wants a 5 year old illiterate Peruvian boy to be President of the US, then that’s who it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/23 "2010-02-10T15:58:41Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Instead of an IQ test, they need to all be survivors of front line fighting, actually in command of some sub set of troops. Because the most important job the president has is attacking other countries, and only veterans are smart enough to avoid stupid wars. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/24 "2010-02-10T16:01:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because the most important job the president has is attacking other countries, and only veterans are smart enough to avoid stupid wars. It has nothing to do with the act of attacking other countries. He needs to know the dangers of warfare and have a reluctance to enter into frivolous ones. Only veterans have **prior** knowledge of what it is like. There is a bit of difference there no? ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/25 "2010-02-10T16:08:39Z")
I’m fine with making candidates take the test just not that they have to have a certain score to qualify for the presidency. Let the scores be made public and voters can include that information in their decision. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/26 "2010-02-10T16:13:15Z")
I sometimes have idly contemplated a three-part test. A candidate for president should have (1) served in the military, (2) run a business - or at least been middle or higher management in a for-profit enterprise, and (3) have worked in a social service agency - whether that be working as a caseworker for a welfare agency, or as a volunteer fire fighter, or a builder for Habitat for Humanity. This would give a nicely balanced background enabling the candidate to at least be familiar with military culture, the working world, and the less fortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/27 "2010-02-10T16:14:38Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > He needs to know the dangers of warfare and have a reluctance to enter into frivolous ones. History shows that veteran presidents also start frivolous wars. But this may be better off as a separate topic. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/28 "2010-02-10T16:15:32Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Yeah, but it’s not a “stability test” or a “function quotient”. It is purported to measure intelligence. I don’t know if there is an accepted definition of intelligence in the psychological community, but among people I know, being able to solve riddles, continue patterns and complete analogies in a multiple choice format is not even close to the definition of intelligent. Maybe it is one aspect of some multidimensional spectrum of intelligence, but certainly not the defining aspect. Standard IQ tests, such as the WAIS, do not use a multiple choice format. > [@](#): > > And to be clear, I’m against the idea of IQ tests being required for anybody anywhere. Keep them in psychological journals and online quizzes where they belong, please. This would be a foolish thing to do, since IQ is a good predictor of job performance and performance in other social settings, as well as being protective against a number of poor outcomes. It’s a pretty handy thing to know, prognostically speaking. It’s utility extends far beyond sudoku, and pretending otherwise is sheer ignorance. Additionally, it’s stability is an indicator of the reliability of the measure. Whatever it may be, it remains very, very stable over one’s lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/29 "2010-02-10T16:16:13Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > A simple and straightforward question, give the apparent (lack of) intellect of Sarah, and also George W, would you support a minimum IQ as part of the needed qualifications to be president? > > Forget for the moment how you would do the constitutional ammendment, or just how high it should be - would you support such a requirement? > > Also, please do assume that its not part of some sort of “slippery slope” - its no more or less than the age requirement. George W. Bush has degrees from Harvard and Yale. Where’d YOU go? Seeing as how you think your IQ is so much higher than his…? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/30 "2010-02-10T16:16:34Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > A simple and straightforward question, give the apparent (lack of) intellect of Sarah, and also George W, would you support a minimum IQ as part of the needed qualifications to be president? > > Forget for the moment how you would do the constitutional ammendment, or just how high it should be - would you support such a requirement? > > Also, please do assume that its not part of some sort of “slippery slope” - its no more or less than the age requirement. Nope. Dumb idea. That, and IQ tests tend to predict nothing more than how someone will perform on IQ tests. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/31 "2010-02-10T16:16:43Z")
No, I would not. besides, people who run for President don’t come out of nowhere. They are typically previously elected officials or successful businessmen/lobbyists. They have been in the public eye for a long time, and the people have had ample opportunity to determine their mental capacity. As always, just because you don’t like them or what they have done does not mean that they are idiots. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/32 "2010-02-10T16:16:50Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > It has nothing to do with the act of attacking other countries. He needs to know the dangers of warfare and have a reluctance to enter into frivolous ones. > Only veterans have **prior** knowledge of what it is like. There is a bit of difference there no? So the goal is peace, right? A reluctance to execute war? So after your system is implemented and proven successful, and we are at peace for 50 years or so, who gets elected? “I think the President should know the dangers of frivolous economic policy. He or she should therefore be dirt poor, a welfare recipient or at least have a Ph.D in economics.” :rolleyes: Seriously, the President has more than one job, so we shouldn’t be electing them based on how we think they would perform in only one of them. The best characteristic a President can have is the ability to surround themselves with a variety of smart, experienced people who aren’t just cronies and yes-men, and to listen to them. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/33 "2010-02-10T16:17:49Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Instead of an IQ test, they need to all be survivors of front line fighting, actually in command of some sub set of troops. Great idea- so, I expect you’ll be launching a campaign to impeach Obama any minute now, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/34 "2010-02-10T16:22:41Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Nope. Dumb idea. That, and IQ tests tend to predict nothing more than how someone will perform on IQ tests. Can you provide any cites for this assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/35 "2010-02-10T16:28:16Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > So the goal is peace, right? A reluctance to execute war? So after your system is implemented and proven successful, and we are at peace for 50 years or so, who gets elected? > > “I think the President should know the dangers of frivolous economic policy. He or she should therefore be dirt poor, a welfare recipient or at least have a Ph.D in economics.” :rolleyes: > > Seriously, the President has more than one job, so we shouldn’t be electing them based on how we think they would perform in only one of them. The best characteristic a President can have is the ability to surround themselves with a variety of smart, experienced people who aren’t just cronies and yes-men, and to listen to them. I agree. A leader of men, wouldn’t you say? Exactly the type of leadership (of your men) you’d show on the field of battle? If this is a bit of a tangent as Marley suggests, maybe someone can bring this up in a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/36 "2010-02-10T16:30:04Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Can you provide any cites for this assertion? The unreliability of IQ tests to predict performance is pretty ubiquitous in the psychological literature. I haven’t looked at it much since I got my psych degree back in '92, but one popular book on the subject is Gould’s _The Mismeasure of Man_. A Psychlit search would yield lots of good stuff. IQ tests are generally good at indicating deficiencies, and they’re better than nothing at what they were designed for (rapid sorting of military recruits according to aptitude), but good IQ test performance doesn’t really correlate to anything past a certain baseline–except the ability to do well on tests, and hence do well in school. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/37 "2010-02-10T16:30:08Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Great idea- so, I expect you’ll be launching a campaign to impeach Obama any minute now, right? Conclusion. Jump. Any minute now I’ll be seeing flying pigs. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/38 "2010-02-10T16:54:50Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > A simple and straightforward question, give the apparent (lack of) intellect of Sarah, and also George W, would you support a minimum IQ as part of the needed qualifications to be president? Actually, Palin and Bush are almost certainly much smarter than the average American – but much dumber than the average governor or POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/39 "2010-02-10T17:40:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, Palin and Bush are almost certainly much smarter than the average American – but much dumber than the average governor or POTUS. Woodrow Wilson had a Ph. D. in political science, which didn’t stop him from getting the U.S. involved in a pointless, unnecessary war and then drawing up the map of Europe in such a way as to ensure future wars. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-support-an-iq-test-for-us-presidency/528408/40 "2010-02-10T18:21:23Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > The unreliability of IQ tests to predict performance is pretty ubiquitous in the psychological literature. I haven’t looked at it much since I got my psych degree back in '92, but one popular book on the subject is Gould’s _The Mismeasure of Man_. A Psychlit search would yield lots of good stuff. Which degree are you referring to? I got my Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology in 1997. I don’t think there were major changes in those five years, but you are desperately incorrect here. > [@](#): > > IQ tests are generally good at indicating deficiencies, and they’re better than nothing at what they were designed for (rapid sorting of military recruits according to aptitude), but good IQ test performance doesn’t really correlate to anything past a certain baseline–except the ability to do well on tests, and hence do well in school. Very false. As you suggest, a PsycInfo search yields loads of good stuff. Here’s a smattering of a search just for reviews or meta-analyses: Sheppard, LD & Vernon, PA (2008). Intelligence and speed of information-processing: A review of 50 years of research. SourcePersonality and Individual Differences. Vol.44(3), pp. 535-551. … The results indicate that measures of intelligence are significantly correlated with mental speed and that for some measures this relationship shows a trend toward strengthening as the complexity of the speeded tasks increase. Additionally, there are various group differences on mental speed tasks: females and males are quicker than one another on different speeded tasks, and younger adults have shorter (faster) reaction time latencies than older adults and children. Reports comparing whites and blacks on mental speed yield inconsistent results. Finally, BG studies indicate that phenotypic correlations between IQ and mental speed are substantially attributable to correlated genetic factors. Nettelbeck, T & Wilson, C. (2005). Intelligence and IQ: What teachers should know. Educational Psychology. Vol.25(6), pp. 609-630. We review past and current psychometric theories about intelligence and critically evaluate the usefulness of modern IQ tests in guiding decisions within an educational context. To accomplish this we consider whether knowledge about intelligence extends beyond mere description to provide a scientific framework for further advancing our understanding. We conclude that it does. […] Despite strong evidence that intelligence and IQ must be different constructs, we conclude that the latter provides the best available means for investigating and making decisions about the former, with higher validity for this purpose than has frequently been realised. We therefore recommend aptitude and achievement testing as useful tools for educational settings, provided they sample a broad range of different intellectual domains in addition to general ability. […] Elkins, I. J, Iacono, W. G & Doyle, A. E. (1997). Characteristics associated with the persistence of antisocial behavior: Results from recent longitudinal research. (1997). Aggression and Violent Behavior. Vol.2(2), Sum 1997, pp. 101-124. Abstract: Reviews findings from recent longitudinal studies regarding characteristics that may predict continuity or discontinuity in antisocial behavior, including preliminary results from the Minnesota Twin Family Study, a population-based, longitudinal study of the development of substance abuse and associated psychological disorders. It is concluded that compared to temporary antisocial behavior that desists following midadolescence, persistent antisocial behavior in adulthood is associated with lower IQ and achievement, more pathological personality characteristics, greater substance abuse, early progression along developmental pathways of antisocial behavior, and increased risk for conduct disorder in of spring. […] Morris, T. W & Levinson, E. M. (1995). Relationship between intelligence and occupational adjustment and functioning: A literature review. Journal of Counseling & Development. Vol.73(5), May-Jun 1995, pp. 503-514. Abstract: Summarizes research on the relationship between intelligence test data and occupational-vocational adjustment with both exceptional (mentally retarded, learning disabled, and emotionally disturbed) and normal populations. In normal populations, there seems to be some relationship between intelligence and occupational and vocational functioning. Thus, IQ can be used as a predictor of success in occupational training. IQ has a substantial correlation with years of schooling and occupational prestige. Mean IQ levels can be assigned to occupations. With mentally retarded Ss, IQ (when subdivided into ranges) has been predictive of occupational success. With all exceptional populations, Performance IQ or a combination of performance subtests has been predictive of success in low-level occupations. 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