# Would you take a muscle building drug?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 2, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807 "2013-09-02T15:48:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/1 "2013-09-02T15:48:54Z")
On the radio this morning, I heard a segment on a substance, tested so far only on rats, that appears to cause muscle tissue to bulk up. The rats given this drug lost weight and increased muscle mass while not increasing activity.
Assume that this can be shown to work on humans and has negligible side-effects, would you take it? According to the researcher who was interviewed, there are philosophical objections: you shouldn’t be permitted to have six-pack abs unless you worked for them. In fact, she suggested that people would have to find new ways to compete (she suggested elaborate hair styles).
What do you dopers think?
---
### Author:  [@Student\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Student_Driver)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/2 "2013-09-02T16:02:17Z")
I’d be afraid that my tongue would swell…
---
### Author:  [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/3 "2013-09-02T16:04:12Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#):
>
> Assume that this can be shown to work on humans and has negligible side-effects, would you take it?
Yes.
Note that I’m 65 and my body has already begun the “losing muscle tissue no matter how hard you work out” process, so for me this would be a staving off deterioration thing.
---
### Author:  [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/4 "2013-09-02T16:31:48Z")
Such results have been claimed before. The “harmless” part is always difficult to prove. But assuming it _is_ harmless…
No. But I’m not sure why.
Maybe it’s the remains of my Judeo-Christian upbringing. If the substance became available without a prescription (and legally), maybe I’d reconsider.
Maybe my health is too complicated/confusing at this point, and I don’t want to complicate it further.
Maybe, if everybody starts taking this, the economy will collapse as all the guys stay home to take pictures of their torsos (_torsii?_) in the mirror and publish them on [Bodyspace](http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com).
---
### Author:  [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/5 "2013-09-02T17:39:14Z")
No. I don’t want to be banned from baseball.
---
### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/6 "2013-09-02T18:22:32Z")
If it was truly harmless? Sign me up.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/7 "2013-09-02T18:44:15Z")
If it’s harmless, sure. Muscle is useful, and I hate exercise.
---
### Author:  [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/8 "2013-09-02T19:28:15Z")
[Is this what you’re talking about](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/23/exercise-pill-muscles-athletic-performance-health_n_3797332.html)?
> [@](#):
>
> A recent study involving mice showed that the drug candidate, dubbed SR9009, significantly increases endurance and the body’s metabolic rate – by 5 percent. The study, conducted at the Scripps Research Institute in Florida, was published online in _[Nature Medicine](http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v19/n8/full/nm.3213.html)_ on July 14, 2013.
> “The animals actually get muscles like an athlete who has been training,” study co-author Dr. Thomas Burris, [chairman of the pharmacological and physiological science department at St. Louis University School of Medicine](http://www.slu.edu/nl-burris-717), said in a written statement. “The pattern of gene expression after [treatment with SR9009](http://www.scripps.edu/news/press/2013/20130714burris.html) is that of an oxidative-type muscle— again, just like an athlete.”
---
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/9 "2013-09-02T19:46:11Z")
Probably not, I’ve got a decent amount of muscle already and don’t need to bulk up anymore. If it made the muscles stronger w/o making them larger then yeah. The weight loss aspect sounds nice.
I’m waiting for myostatin inhibitors to hit the market, those should be fun to see how people use those. I can imagine bodybuilders combining those with their cocktail of steroids, insulin and growth hormone. However humans seem (so far) to be genetically limited to a certain level of muscle mass. Almost no lean bodybuilders end up with arms bigger than 22-23" no matter their genetics or what drugs they take.
Myostatin is a protein that slows muscle growth, if you block it muscle growth occurs much more rapidly. Here is a photo of a bull that was bred to not make myostatin.
[ ](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6_qdl-GaR0Y/Tp6usr3VG5I/AAAAAAAAAEw/-2-3TDHayGM/s320/Bodybuilder%2BBull%2B-%2Bmyostatin_bull-758412.jpg)
and a dog.
[http://itthing.com/wp-content/uploads/myostatin-dog.jpg](http://itthing.com/wp-content/uploads/myostatin-dog.jpg)
Either way, these medical tools would be useful for the disabled, elderly, those with wasting diseases (muscular dystrophy, HIV, burn victims, etc) so it isn’t just vanity.
---
### Author:  [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/10 "2013-09-02T19:53:55Z")
But this drug has much wider effects.
> [@](#):
>
> The drug candidate is one of two compounds developed in Burris’s lab that work by binding to one of the body’s [Rev-erbα](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha), a protein that plays a key role in the creation of skeletal muscle. And in addition to building muscle tissue, SR90009 lowered the mice’s cholesterol levels.
And from wikipedia:
> [@](#):
>
> **Physiologic function**
>
> Rev-erbα regulates gene transcription by directly binding to target response elements (RevREs), comprises an A/T-rich flank followed by AGGTCA. Rev-erbα mediates repression by recruiting the corepressor N-CoR, which then activates the [histone deacetylase](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histone_deacetylase) (HDAC) 3. A number of target genes has been identified for Rev-erbα, including the lipoproteins [ApoA1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ApoA1) and [ApoCIII](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ApoCIII), hydratase dehydrogenase, the circadian factor [BMAL](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMAL), and the anti-fibrinolytic factor [PAI-1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasminogen_activator_inhibitor-1).[[8]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha#cite_note-pmid16968709-8) Many of these genes are coordinately regulated by Rev-erbα and the RAR-related orphan receptor [RORα](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAR-related_orphan_receptor_alpha), which share the same response elements but exert opposite effects on gene transcription. Crosstalk between Rev-erbα and RORα likely acts to fine-tune their target physiologic networks, such as circadian rhythms, metabolic homeostasis,[[9]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha#cite_note-pmid22211891-9) and inflammation.[[10]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha#cite_note-pmid7838158-10)
> Rev-erbα mRNA is induced during adipogenesis and is highly expressed in [adipose tissue](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipose_tissue).[[11]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha#cite_note-pmid12821652-11) One study reported that overexpression of Rev-erbα may enhance adipogenesis in cultured mouse [adipocytes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocyte), but the mechanism of this effect remains to be elucidated.[[12]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha#cite_note-pmid8344913-12) More recently, a study showed that the deletion of Rev-erbα in mice alters glucose and lipid metabolism and leads to obesity.[[13]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha#cite_note-pmid22562834-13)
> Rev-erbα expression is also regulated at the post-translational level: it is phosphorylated on the amino terminus by glycogen synthase kinase ([GSK 3β](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSK-3)), which contributes to its protein stability. It has been shown that [lithium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium), which inhibits GSK3β, can de-stabilize Rev-erbα protein and affect its function in the circadian clock.[[14]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev-ErbA_alpha#cite_note-pmid16484495-14) This may partly explain lithium’s therapeutic effect on circadian diseases such as [bipolar disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder).
---
### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/11 "2013-09-02T19:57:48Z")
Hell ya. I’ve spent my entire life at the gym just to stay fit. I’m exhausted and I could use a break. I’d miss the feel good endorphins from a hard workout though.
---
### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/12 "2013-09-02T21:39:05Z")
I’m not sure which of the above suggested candidates was the one that was discussed. She mentioned that the first candidates for the drug would be people handicapped in such a way that they cannot get normal exercise. But you can be sure that, once approved, its use would spread.
Studies in humans will, of course, be critical. I may be indolent, but I am not an indolent rat.
---
### Author:  [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/13 "2013-09-02T22:48:14Z")
I wouldn’t when I was young and closing in on 50 I still wouldn’t.
I’d love for it to be available when I’m 70 or so just to improve the quality of life, not extend it. My father is sick and has lost so much muscle he can’t even stand, it’s a very hard thing to watch ☹
---
### Author:  [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/14 "2013-09-02T23:52:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#):
>
> Hell ya. I’ve spent my entire life at the gym just to stay fit. I’m exhausted and I could use a break. I’d miss the feel good endorphins from a hard workout though.
Just take some MDMA with it, problem solved. 😉
---
### Author:  [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/15 "2013-09-03T00:55:58Z")
> [@sisu](#):
>
> Just take some MDMA with it, problem solved. 😉
Actually, this is sort of my objection to taking said drug.
There is a line beyond which the ‘point’ of being human becomes lost. If one pill keeps us strong, and another pill keeps us happy, then what’s the point of striving for anything?
I draw the line at non-necessary, pharmaceutical body enhancements.
---
### Author:  [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/16 "2013-09-03T01:04:40Z")
If it was harmless, then yes, I would try it.
As it stands now, I take creatine and protein on a regular basis. I’m working on improving my diet. I’ve even considered steroids. In my mind, it would just be another “supplement” with which I would not have an issue.
---
### Author:  [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/17 "2013-09-03T01:11:47Z")
Yes, of course.
I’d probably take HGH right now if I could afford it.
---
### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/18 "2013-09-03T05:00:17Z")
I’d consider taking it depending on the side effects, but only as an anti-aging thing.
---
### Author:  [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/19 "2013-09-03T10:52:45Z")
I’d take it as a “yay! I get to eat mo and not gain weight!” thing. I do like to eat. And I would love for such a thing to be available for my parents as they age.
---
### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807/20 "2013-09-03T11:36:44Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> Myostatin is a protein that slows muscle growth, if you block it muscle growth occurs much more rapidly. Here is a photo of a bull that was bred to not make myostatin.
>
> [http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6\_qdl-GaR0Y/Tp6usr3VG5I/AAAAAAAAAEw/-2-3TDHayGM/s320/Bodybuilder%2BBull%2B-%2Bmyostatin\_bull-758412.jpg](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6_qdl-GaR0Y/Tp6usr3VG5I/AAAAAAAAAEw/-2-3TDHayGM/s320/Bodybuilder%2BBull%2B-%2Bmyostatin_bull-758412.jpg)
>
> and a dog.
>
> [http://itthing.com/wp-content/uploads/myostatin-dog.jpg](http://itthing.com/wp-content/uploads/myostatin-dog.jpg)
>
> Either way, these medical tools would be useful for the disabled, elderly, those with wasting diseases (muscular dystrophy, HIV, burn victims, etc) so it isn’t just vanity.
Are those animals unusually strong for their species?
Are there any drawbacks to such overgrowth of muscles?
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-take-a-muscle-building-drug/667807.md?page=2)