# Would You Voluntarily Give Your Passwords to The NSA? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 7, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597 "2013-08-07T16:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/21 "2013-08-07T19:21:06Z")
> [@Fluke54](#): > > I really don’t care if the NSA reads my email. Until talking crap about your boss becomes something of international concern, I am safe. Do you care if they read political dissidents’ emails? People who would like to change the status quo? Would you care if someone like a modern day MLK were blackmailed into dismantling his movement due to some embarrassing secrets the government found in his email? Do you care that the specter of NSA spying has chilling effects on the free speech of people who are not criminals, nor dangerous in any way? Then encrypt your email to provide cover to people more in need of secrecy than yourself. “I have nothing to hide” is a horrible cop out. Not to mention that everyone commits several crimes a day. This basically opens the way for arbitrary arrests of whoever the government deems “undesirable”. You can’t be sure you won’t fall into that category one day, so it pays to support everyone’s privacy today, lest you require it one day when it’s not there. [https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/](https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/) ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/22 "2013-08-07T19:24:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to mention that everyone commits several crimes a day. orly? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/23 "2013-08-07T19:26:47Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > No, I absolutely would not volunteer my passwords. But since emails are transmitted unencrypted, they would neither need nor bother to ask for them. There are encrypted email transmission protocols (STARTTLS) and they are used quite extensively. If STARTTLS is used, the email cannot be easily intercepted in transmission. It is as secure as SSL, which, if used correctly, is unbreakable with current computer speeds. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/24 "2013-08-07T19:30:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you want to talk practical re-use, then my intended recipient and I can each generate asymmetric keypairs and exchange our public keys with each other. A 8192-bit key is not going to be cracked by NSA in any reasonable period of time. 8192 is overkill. A 128-bit key [cannot be cracked](http://www.inet2000.com/public/encryption.htm) in any reasonable period of time. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/25 "2013-08-07T19:33:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 8192 is overkill. A 128-bit key [cannot be cracked](http://www.inet2000.com/public/encryption.htm) in any reasonable period of time. “using any method publicly known at this time” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/26 "2013-08-07T19:42:53Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > “using any method publicly known at this time” Yes, I should have qualified this: a 128-bit key SSL protocol, if implemented properly (that is, without using RC4), cannot be cracked in any reasonable amount of time using any known method using modern computers (or even computers that are a million times faster). ---
**Author:** ![Fluke54](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac8455/32.png) [@Fluke54](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fluke54)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/27 "2013-08-07T19:43:01Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Do you care if they read political dissidents’ emails? People who would like to change the status quo? Would you care if someone like a modern day MLK were blackmailed into dismantling his movement due to some embarrassing secrets the government found in his email? Do you care that the specter of NSA spying has chilling effects on the free speech of people who are not criminals, nor dangerous in any way? > > Then encrypt your email to provide cover to people more in need of secrecy than yourself. “I have nothing to hide” is a horrible cop out. > > Not to mention that everyone commits several crimes a day. This basically opens the way for arbitrary arrests of whoever the government deems “undesirable”. You can’t be sure you won’t fall into that category one day, so it pays to support everyone’s privacy today, lest you require it one day when it’s not there. > > [https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/](https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/) Umm, wow, this was unexpected. I was talking about me personally. I am not a terrorist or political dissident, nor do I have any plans to become one. I keep my political opinions to myself, because my political opinions are not popular these days. Have some green tea, it will calm you down. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/28 "2013-08-07T19:47:13Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > See, this is what I meant, not one-time pads (which are secure if kept secure.) > > You think a keylength of certain size assures secure communication. > And that’s true as far as we know. At this time, nobody knows how to get around these large-key encryption schemes. > > However, > NSA knows this. All intelligence agencies do, it’s been true for years. Everybody is working on it, and they are spending big money. > And that’s how you break a code. Any code. Time and money and effort. > Big machines running in massive parallel is just the start the of methods NSA can employ. > > It will be a breakthrough when it happens- and we’ll never know, because they won’t tell us. I don’t see how massively parallel computation is of any help here; it suffers from the same limitations that classic computing does: no matter how much we raise speed, eventually you hit a wall. It’s true that encryption methods that depend on integer factorization would be theoretically vulnerable to quantum computing. A guy named Peter Shor proved that on a quantum computer, integer factorization runs dramatically more efficiently than on a classical computer. But integer factorization is not the only way to manage encryption. McEliece with Goppa codes, for example, is immune to Shor’s attack. And if you want to be ridiculous about it, a “multi-prime” RSA with 231 4096-bit primes provides 2[sup]100[/sup] security against quantum attacks. Granted, that key is… er… a bit large. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/29 "2013-08-07T19:57:46Z")
I give the NSA my password unless there was a reason that made sense to me, and that wouldn’t include ‘Just in case we need it someday’. Also, there are plenty of unbreakable encryption schemes. It’s public key encryption that can be broken, private key systems can be made impossible to crack, they just aren’t convenient. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/30 "2013-08-07T20:24:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s public key encryption that can be broken, private key systems can be made impossible to crack, they just aren’t convenient. I don’t think you know what those words mean. > **[Public-key cryptography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_key_algorithm)** > > Public-key cryptography, or asymmetric cryptography, is the field of cryptographic systems that use pairs of related keys. Each key pair consists of a public key and a corresponding private key. Key pairs are generated with cryptographic algorithms based on mathematical problems termed one-way functions. Security of public-key cryptography depends on keeping the private key secret; the public key can be openly distributed without compromising security. > There are many kinds of public-key Public... ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/31 "2013-08-07T20:29:26Z")
> [@Fluke54](#): > > Umm, wow, this was unexpected. I was talking about me personally. I am not a terrorist or political dissident, nor do I have any plans to become one. I keep my political opinions to myself, because my political opinions are not popular these days. > > Have some green tea, it will calm you down. Don’t take it personal, please. My point is that even if you have “nothing to hide” (which is a terrible argument, by the way, please read my link), you should take steps to secure your privacy for the sake of others and those who come after us. And you admit that you censor yourself online because you hold unpopular opinions? You’re making my point for me. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/32 "2013-08-07T20:43:09Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Question: > > If they can do all this spying now, why are acts of badness still happening? Huh? Huh? > After the fact it always comes out about prior communication or some such. > > I don’t think they are as good at it as we think or they really are part of the plot. That strikes me as asking if evolution is true, why are there still monkeys. Some are missed, but some are not. We hear about the ones they didn’t catch, not the others > [@DrCube](#): > > Then encrypt your email to provide cover to people more in need of secrecy than yourself. “I have nothing to hide” is a horrible cop out. To be honest, I wouldn’t even know how to encrypt it. I use a free email service like Yahoo or Gmail. I send stuff, I get stuff. How would I even encrypt that? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/33 "2013-08-07T21:28:47Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > To be honest, I wouldn’t even know how to encrypt it. I use a free email service like Yahoo or Gmail. I send stuff, I get stuff. How would I even encrypt that? Get an email client like [Thunderbird](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird), and use [PGP](http://gnupg.org/). > **[Pretty Good Privacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy)** > > Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) is an encryption program that provides cryptographic privacy and authentication for data communication. PGP is used for signing, encrypting, and decrypting texts, e-mails, files, directories, and whole disk partitions and to increase the security of e-mail communications. Phil Zimmermann developed PGP in 1991. > PGP and similar software follow the OpenPGP standard (RFC 4880), an open standard for encrypting and decrypting data. Modern versions of PGP are interoperable w... ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/34 "2013-08-07T22:17:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 8192 is overkill. A 128-bit key [cannot be cracked](http://www.inet2000.com/public/encryption.htm) in any reasonable period of time. Squeamish sassifrage. That was encrypted using a 128 bit key in 1977 and decrypted maybe a decade ago. Computers keep getting faster and faster. But with a 512 bit key there is no known way of cracking before the sun becomes a red giant. But that “known” comes with 2 caveats. A quantum computer could destroy the RSA algorithm (using primes). Second, NSA might have already solved the factorization problem (which is likely not NP complete) and is keeping it secret. Would a quantum computer be able to crack RSA type codes made using elliptic curves? Does anybody here know? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/35 "2013-08-07T22:36:51Z")
“squeamish ossifrage”, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/36 "2013-08-07T22:51:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Suppose the US government passed a new law that gave the NSA permission to read private emails. Would you give your up? No, not that it would matter. It wouldn’t be necessary and if there were a similar law it wouldn’t work that way. > [@](#): > > Second:if a way was found to encrypt your messages (such that the NSA could not decode them) wold you use it? It depends on how much bother it is, I guess. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > As noted previously, they already get to read anyone’s e-mail. No, they don’t. > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > The NSA does not need your passwords. They are capturing all of your intertube communications and keeping it on file. No, they are not. [These are both misunderstandings that stem from some of the vagaries in the initial reporting of the power point presentation Edward Snowden turned over to the press.](http://www.thenation.com/blog/174783/glenn-greenwalds-epic-botch#axzz2bKIbgwSQ) There was a slide that discussed communications being placed on servers the NSA could access, and this was interpreted to mean the NSA was being given direct access to servers belonging to lots of companies and allowing them to access everybody’s Google searches and email and so on. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/37 "2013-08-07T22:59:02Z")
> [@](#): > > No, they are not. A bit over-firm, imho. They haven’t been caught doing that yet, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/38 "2013-08-07T23:15:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 8192 is overkill. A 128-bit key [cannot be cracked](http://www.inet2000.com/public/encryption.htm) in any reasonable period of time. From the link you are holding up as a good source: > [@](#): > > …Doing the math, you can see that using the same method that was used to break 40-bit encryption in a week, it would take about 72 million weeks (about 1.4 million years) to even break ‘56-bit medium’ encryption… And [yet:](http://news.cnet.com/RSA-56-bit-crypto-too-weak/2100-1023_3-204556.html) > [@](#): > > Encryption software vendor RSA Data Security just spent another $10,000 proving its point to the federal government. > The company awarded the cash prize to a group called the Bovine RC5 Effort that cracked 56-bit encryption code, the strongest encryption allowed by U.S. law for export without the use of key escrow or recovery schemes. RSA’s point: 56-bit code isn’t strong enough. > It took a group of 4,000 teams using tens of thousands of computers linked over the Internet 210 days to crack the code. The decrypted message read, “It is time to move to a longer key length.” It didn’t take 72 million weeks, did it? And my cite was written in 1997, sixteen years ago. Do you think we’ve slowed down since then? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/39 "2013-08-08T00:53:44Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > A bit over-firm, imho. They haven’t been caught doing that yet, maybe. I’m pretty sure it’s not even possible, but in any event there’s no evidence that’s what is going on. What is actually happening is worrying enough. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597/40 "2013-08-08T00:59:28Z")
They already have them, since every keystroke made on my laptop, iPad and smartphone are already logged. –shrug-- I am not worth very much. And I don’t do things wrong. So, let 'em know em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-voluntarily-give-your-passwords-to-the-nsa/665597.md?page=3)