# Would you want armed civilians that were non-police patrolling your neighborhood? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401 "2013-07-13T14:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/62 "2013-07-15T18:14:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right. And he is deciding whether or not the person is like Zimmerman, apparently, based on how he looks. > > So if you appear white, you are a racist, cop wannabe, potential murderer. If you appear black, you are a racist, gangsta wannabe, potential burglar. If there is a difference between these two attitudes, I don’t see what it is. > > Well, if you don’t care what the jury said, and you apparently aren’t basing your opinions on the evidence, then what is it? Zimmerman shot a black kid who attacked and tried to kill him. Why should he go to prison - because he is white/Hispanic? > I don’t think it matters. **Skald** apparently thinks Zimmerman shot Martin because he thought Martin looked dangerous. Maybe he’s right about that - I am sure Martin looked different from underneath while he was trying to smash Zimmerman’s head in. > > Regards, > Shodan Here is the goddamn evidence, Shodan. George Zimmerman saw a young man walking home. Based on no goddamn evidence, he got out of his car and followed the young man, instigating a confrontation that ended with Zimmerman shooting and killing him. The young man was walking to his own fucking home, carrying nothing more dangerous than a soft drink and candy, neither of which are the tools of choice for burglars, muggers, thieves, or home invaders. The entire fucking thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman had followed both the explicit instructions of the 911 operator and the rules given neighborhood watch members. Is George Zimmerman a racist? I don’t know. I also do not give a fuck. He belongs in jail because he’s a fucking irresponsible dangerous gun owner who, that night, apparently mistook himself for Batman. All he had to do to avoid this tragedy, this crime, was not follow a young man, not put him in fear for his life. Because it was fucking Zimmerman who was going around the neighborhood with a gun. It was fucking Zimmerman who was the danger to the residents of that neighborhood that night. I have a gun. You know how many times I’ve followed a stranger around my neighborhood and provoked a fight with him? Exactly zero. BECAUSE I AM NOT A GODDAMNED IDIOT. I AM SOMEONE WHO VALUES HUMAN LIFE, which Zimmerman, obviously, is not. I’m gonna take a second to breathe here. You know, it’s conceivable to me that Zimmerman should not have been convicted of murder, just as it’s conceivable to me that he’s not a racist. Nonetheless his extreme irrespoinsibility, his willingness to provoke a confrontation on someone WHO WAS DOING NOT A SINGLE GODDAMN THING WRONG, shows that he was the criminal, that he was the one dangerous man walking the streets that night, that he was the one looking for excitement and violence and glory. And he got away with it in no small part, I believe, because of the oh-so-cleverly-couched racist arguments of his lawyers, which the jury swallowed, perhaps because of their own racism, perhaps because they were idiots. Fuck the lot of them. Fuck those motherfuckers. The whole thing makes me wish I believed in the Christian god, because at least then there’d be the possibility of them burning in Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/63 "2013-07-15T18:40:55Z")
Ah, you’re another one who thinks people have the right to go around punching and beating people for no reason. I thought you’d be better than that, based on your other posts. Fuck that. You attack someone who’s armed, you’re an idiot who has caused your own death. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/64 "2013-07-15T18:51:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ah, you’re another one who thinks people have the right to go around punching and beating people for no reason. I thought you’d be better than that, based on your other posts. > > Fuck that. You attack someone who’s armed, you’re an idiot who has caused your own death. 1. I don’t think that “being stalked by a man with a gun” constitutes “no reason.” 2. Even if someone did punch or kick someone else for no reason, that does not warrant the death penalty, whether administered by a judge and jury or administered by an asshole on the street with a gun. 3. I’m not thrilled with either the concept of “you can punch someone who starts following you around” or “you can shoot someone if you pick a fight with them and they fight back” but given those as the only two options, I’d choose to live amongst people who believe the former. Better chance of surviving to adulthood that way. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/65 "2013-07-15T19:06:22Z")
All these people who say that Zimmerman did nothing to provoke Martin would freak the fuck out if they were walking home from the store and a black man started following them around at night. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/66 "2013-07-15T19:13:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > All these people who say that Zimmerman did nothing to provoke Martin would freak the fuck out if they were walking home from the store and a black man started following them around at night. So much word. If Tray was “badass” or not, he was followed, for no reason. Of course you’re going to react with fear. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/67 "2013-07-15T19:14:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite where Zimmerman said he wanted all blacks to apologize to him? > > Regards, > Shodan I gave the cite in the link. GZ said it on the Sean Hannity show. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/68 "2013-07-15T19:18:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ah, you’re another one who thinks people have the right to go around punching and beating people for no reason. I thought you’d be better than that, based on your other posts. > > Fuck that. You attack someone who’s armed, you’re an idiot who has caused your own death. This doesn’t make any sense. If Tray knew GZ was armed he’d either run or try to disarm him, but that didn’t happen. And if he were assulting him as GZ alleges, then why didn’t Tray disarm GZ and use the weapon on him? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/69 "2013-07-15T19:26:15Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > So much word. If Tray was “badass” or not, he was followed, for no reason. Of course you’re going to react with fear. That’s my point. Bottom line, Zimmerman defenders are ok with a dead black kid, because deep down they are afraid of black people and assume we all are. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/70 "2013-07-15T19:47:41Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > All these people who say that Zimmerman did nothing to provoke Martin would freak the fuck out if they were walking home from the store and a black man started following them around at night. Hey, I don’t give a shit what color he is! Then again, my opinion on Zimmerman is unprintable. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/71 "2013-07-15T19:48:20Z")
Does anyone defend Zimmerman who _isn’t_ a middle aged white man who is really really bad at hiding their racism? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/72 "2013-07-15T20:49:10Z")
Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/73 "2013-07-16T01:43:49Z")
Are you kidding? No fucking way. There’s already too many dumb ass rednecks with guns. This would just give them an excuse to harass black people, Hispanics, homosexuals, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/74 "2013-07-16T08:00:06Z")
No way in hell would I want some cowboy with a gun roaming around where I live. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/75 "2013-07-16T10:44:53Z")
Absolutely not. Even in the case of the police, guns should not be involved unless the suspect also has a gun or sharp weapon. ---
**Author:** ![desertmonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@desertmonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/desertmonk)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/76 "2013-07-16T11:42:27Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > Does anyone defend Zimmerman who _isn’t_ a middle aged white man who is really really bad at hiding their racism? I don’t know that the Zimmerman defenders are all racist, I just think they are finding it far easier to relate to him than to Martin. They see themselves in a fight and they pull a gun and stop the fight. They insist upon Zimmerman’s right to use lethal force while denigrating Martin for allegedly approaching the same level of force. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/77 "2013-07-16T12:34:20Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I gave the cite in the link. GZ said it on the Sean Hannity show. Your cite doesn’t say that. Do you have a cite where he actually said what you claim? [QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Here is the goddamn evidence, Shodan. George Zimmerman saw a young man walking home. Based on no goddamn evidence, he got out of his car and followed the young man, instigating a confrontation that ended with Zimmerman shooting and killing him. The young man was walking to his own fucking home, carrying nothing more dangerous than a soft drink and candy, neither of which are the tools of choice for burglars, muggers, thieves, or home invaders. The entire fucking thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman had followed both the explicit instructions of the 911 operator and the rules given neighborhood watch members. [/QUOTE] We have hashed this out pretty thoroughly in the various monster threads. [ul][li]There is no evidence that Zimmerman instigated the confrontation. Quite the opposite, in fact.[/li][li]Martin was already home. However, he chose to return and hunt Zimmerman out - not vice versa.[/li][li]Martin attacked Zimmerman, breaking his nose, knocking him down, and jumping on his chest and pounding his head against the pavement. [/li][li]No evidence exists that Zimmerman was following Martin after the NEN operator advised him “we don’t need you to do that”. [/li][li]The “entire fucking thing could have been avoided” if Martin were not a dangerous, violent wannabe thug and gangsta who attacked a stranger in the street.[/ul][/li] [QUOTE=MsWhatsit] I’m not thrilled with either the concept of “you can punch someone who starts following you around” or “you can shoot someone if you pick a fight with them and they fight back” but given those as the only two options, I’d choose to live amongst people who believe the former. Better chance of surviving to adulthood that way. [/QUOTE] Martin apparently believed the former, and he will never see eighteen. So I don’t think you are correct. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/78 "2013-07-16T12:37:52Z")
> [@desertmonk](#): > > They insist upon Zimmerman’s right to use lethal force while denigrating Martin for allegedly approaching the same level of force. Well, yes. I think people should be allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves against an attack that puts them in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. I don’t think people should be allowed to use deadly force against anyone who asks them what they are doing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/79 "2013-07-16T12:42:00Z")
No, I’ve met some of my neighbors. Just…no. ---
**Author:** ![rEVOLutionary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revolutionary/32/7311_2.png) [@rEVOLutionary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rEVOLutionary)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/80 "2013-07-16T12:46:04Z")
How about NO patrolling? No preemptive law enforcement. Eliminate gun control. If everyone has a gun, obviously there will still be SOME crime, but statistics support the notion that, the less gun control, the less violent crimes. Look at Switzerland. Look at Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/81 "2013-07-16T12:57:50Z")
The only way I could accept this is if they did a poll “Everyone who wants to patrol your neighborhood with a gun, stand up” and then had everyone who \*didn’t \* stand up, do the patrolling. There is a crazy man in our neighborhood. I have never seen him nor do I know who he is. I know he’s crazy because he’s been putting up big signs. In these signs, it is You, with your seven or ten round magazines, against the Bad Guys, with 30 round magazines. Police: 30 minutes away. Seriously, that’s what they say. And this guy scares the fuck out of me. When was the last time anyone in my neighborhood was in a shootout? With Bad Guys who have 30 round magazines and the police take that long to get there? I live in one of the safest municipalities in the COUNTRY. This guy lives in a dream world where the entire world is hostile to him and him alone. And most of these wanna-be vigilantes have exactly this kind of attitude. And I totally include Zimmerman in that category. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401.md?page=5)