# Would you want armed civilians that were non-police patrolling your neighborhood? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401 "2013-07-13T14:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/102 "2013-07-16T20:32:38Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Zimmerman was just enjoying a nightly constitutional when Martin leapt out of the bushes at his head, did he? No, I believe he was waiting for the police, after reporting that he spotted a suspicious character. It might help to make yourself at least a little acquainted with the basic facts of the case. Unless you already know them. [QUOTE=MsWhatsit] Attempted, and succeeded. [/QUOTE] No, they determined that Zimmerman was not guilty of murder (or manslaughter, or anything else). They had a whole trial and everything - you might have seen it in the newspapers or on the Internet. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/103 "2013-07-16T20:34:34Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > That’s because you, like most conservatives, live in fear: fear of blacks, fear of ideas,\*\* fear of secretly being turned gay\*\*. You need your big hard gun to make all the fear go away. No, I’ve noticed most of the times I’ve slept with men. But hey, have fun with the stereotypes. I don’t own a gun either. Have a guess how likely that makes your other baseless accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/104 "2013-07-16T20:40:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I object to self-appointed, unmarked, unbadged pompous assholes who take it on themselves to play cop when a very likely reaction is that their challenges will be taken as threats or baseless hassling. Like this guy – [Dennis Rader - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/105 "2013-07-16T20:44:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I believe he was waiting for the police, after reporting that he spotted a suspicious character. That still doesn’t explain why Trayvon would attack him, unless he did something stupid like pretend it was his job to follow him. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/106 "2013-07-18T12:58:43Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Absolutely not. The ‘lethal force’ they carry on their hip or snugged under their windbreaker is the least part of the equation. A civilian has no gradations of control in a situation; he can wave his arms helplessly or shoot someone - which is exactly what happened in Florida. > > A uniform, badge and other trappings of authority give the “guard” a range of options, including an immediate presumed authority to challenge someone’s activities. If Martin had been able to recognize Zimmerman as someone with authority, even the weak, largely self-designated authority he had, it’s likely we never would have heard of the encounter. > > I don’t object to a “civilian” patrol, even an armed one, per se; I object to self-appointed, unmarked, unbadged pompous assholes who take it on themselves to play cop when a very likely reaction is that their challenges will be taken as threats or baseless hassling. > > ETA: Probably unnecessary illustration: You’re having a big family picnic party in a public park. You and the other two adult males are drinking beer, in mild violation of the park rules. > > Scenario 1: A uniformed cop, ranger, or guard comes up to you and challenges you on the beer. You pour them out, put the rest in your trunk, and maybe get a ticket or a warning. > > Scenario 2: A guy in a windbreaker walks up and challenges you on the beer. I can’t think of too many outcomes that don’t end with real cops being called, arrests for anything between assault and homicide, and tragedy all around. > > “Florida… chose poooorly.” It’s NOT about the technicality of carry laws. This wasn’t my angle when I voted no, but it has certainly reinforced the reason for my answer. Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/107 "2013-07-18T13:56:17Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > That still doesn’t explain why Trayvon would attack him, unless he did something stupid like pretend it was his job to follow him. That still wouldn’t explain why Martin attacked him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/108 "2013-07-18T14:14:30Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > That still doesn’t explain why Trayvon would attack him, unless he did something stupid like pretend it was his job to follow him. Martin appears to have thought he was a bad-ass. Unfortunately for him, he appears to have attacked the wrong person. But no, there is no indication that Zimmerman pretended that it was his job to follow Martin. So that probably isn’t it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/109 "2013-07-18T14:50:16Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > Does anyone defend Zimmerman who _isn’t_ a middle aged white man who is really really bad at hiding their racism? No. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/110 "2013-07-18T15:00:14Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > That still doesn’t explain why Trayvon would attack him, unless he did something stupid like pretend it was his job to follow him. Actually, there IS a possible reason, one that could very well cost Trayvon dearly in the court of public opinion (not that he cares about THAT any more), if it comes to the forefront of discussion. The angle is homosexuality. Trayvon’s friend Jeantel says that, during her phone chat with Trayvon just before his death, Trayvon indicated he was being followed by a creepy guy. Jeantel told him the guy was probably gay! Now, Jeantel is not exactly a credible witness on ANY subject. But what if this is the truth? What IF Trayvon saw a guy following him in a car, and figured Zimmerman was a gay cruiser? What IF Trayvon attacked and tried to beat up Zimmerman because he thought Zimmerman was getting out of the car to hit on him or proposition him? Oooh, this could get complicated, couldn’t it? IF Trayvon was angry and violent toward Zimmerman because he thought the creepy cracka was gay, does he lose his victim status with the liberal media? Or does he become an evil homophobe who got what he deserved? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/111 "2013-07-18T18:57:18Z")
> [@desertmonk](#): > > **Would you want armed civilians that were non-police patrolling your neighborhood?** Fuck no. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/112 "2013-07-19T05:26:25Z")
I have trouble believing that black Americans are afraid of white Americans. Is that really true? Is that rational in the present? ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/113 "2013-07-19T15:44:06Z")
“Self-appointed” changes everything. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/114 "2013-07-19T15:54:11Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I have trouble believing that black Americans are afraid of white Americans. Is that really true? Is that rational in the present? Do you have trouble believing that an _individual_ black person could be afraid of an _individual_ white person? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/115 "2013-07-19T16:03:45Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > Does anyone defend Zimmerman who _isn’t_ a middle aged white man who is really really bad at hiding their racism? I’m not sure if I count as “defending Zimmerman.” I believe the verdict was legally correct. I am not a middle-aged white man. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/116 "2013-07-19T16:14:57Z")
> [@desertmonk](#): > > To elaborate on the title: > > Your town has a functioning police department. Self appointed people have began to patrol the streets in cars/on foot. They have (legally) armed themselves with semi-automatic pistols and rifles. There is no law against what they are doing. If something suspicious is found they will call the police; they may also confront the person (s) if they feel time is critical. > > Do you feel safer? No, I’d move as soon as possible before there was a major incident. In the meantime, I’d see what I could do to make it illegal. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/117 "2013-07-19T18:25:09Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I have trouble believing that black Americans are afraid of white Americans. Is that really true? Is that rational in the present? A lot of black Americans are certainly very frightened by the police. It’s depressingly easy to find examples on the Internet of black parents teaching their sons how to avoid being shot by cops. “Make sure you put your hands up right away” and stuff like that. The extent to which black people are harassed by police officers is really quite beyond the grasp of most white people. If Zimmermans start cruising around with guns, more black people will be shot, and they’ll have all the more reason to be afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/118 "2013-07-19T18:39:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If Zimmermans start cruising around with guns, more black people will be shot, and they’ll have all the more reason to be afraid. Only if the black people attack the Zimmermen. ---
**Author:** ![MissIndependent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MissIndependent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIndependent)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/119 "2013-07-19T19:24:17Z")
It depends on if they were trained on how to use their weapons. I think I would rather just have police around depending on the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/120 "2013-07-19T19:33:43Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I have trouble believing that black Americans are afraid of white Americans. Is that really true? Is that rational in the present? Um … duh? What the hell country are you living in? ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/121 "2013-07-19T19:37:11Z")
There seems to be a general tone in this thread that white people must be disarmed or they will shoot black people with abandon because this incident proves" it. Or am I misreading? As far as police. Young men of all color/cultures are society’s most dangerous. Until they get adjusted to the testosterone surge and find their place in society they tend to be a danger to themselves and others. I know about that. I have a son. He’s white but he was a defiant handful at one stage and got the same lecture any caring black mother would give her son. Don’t run, be respectful, keep your hands visible, no sudden movements. I hear a lot of black people here saying their kids shouldn’t have to do that. “Nobody has the right to ask me what I’m doing here” and all that smarty-pants, self-inflated stuff. But for society to be safe we need a social pact to be accountable to each other. I guess my son shouldn’t have to answer to police either under that reasoning but I wanted to provide him with the best info possible to keep him alive. I just to see that as racial but rather social. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401.md?page=7)